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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: December 21, 2009 03:45 pm  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
      IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129    | The tertiaries want a req raise. Please vote and explain your decision. --------------------  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 03:49 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 | First vote  P2P we have 2 <105 and 6 F2P. And with the exception of myself and Dallar I pretty much never see a <105 at an event. I say yeah, we're ready for a raise. --------------------  [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 03:52 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: megajayson Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9246 Member No.: 423 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 216 | raise, the difference between 105 and 100 is so small these days its pointless. also makes people train --------------------  This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! 7th Highest Overall for Wars Attended. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:00 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | have we not learned from the past that this is a bad idea? --------------------  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:02 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
Well we're not really getting anywhere at 100, do you suggest lowering? -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:06 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 |
No. It's a new generation. They have to relearn things and have their own experiences. Telling them about the past will only make them believe times have changed. I think they need to see this happen in their generation. -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:07 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: ThisIsUnique Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1664 Member No.: 1417 Joined: October 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 141 |
The past does not matter. The circumstances are way different, the clan world is different, the clan members are different. Future is the only way we need to think. --------------------   | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:11 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Told you so kiwi.  -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:12 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Mike|Sonix Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1483 Member No.: 13 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 103 | If the past is any indication.. definitely no. However at the same time, I don't see why not, because the difference between 100 and 105 is just so small... Do we still have the rule that Guardians need to be level 102 by the time they graduate? Make it 105 instead? Or maybe 102-103 after graduation, and 105 within 1 month post-graduation? Someone would have to keep a list of who is doing what, but it doesn't seem like its very hard to keep track of, considering WG doesn't get an overflow of new members. --------------------   | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:13 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | From the past, we have evidence that this has not worked. You want recruitment, then this will not help. The only thing that will help is *maybe* tanking. Which is what I am sure brings up the issue with the requirements change. Someone at 80 in all melee stats would be just over the 100 combat mark. If you get someone who trains purely defence for the remainder then they would be roughly 92 defence at that time. But because I rarely find people training purely defence (Tabs is an exception along with tanks (but we do not appeal to tanks, in my honest opinion)), you are going to find someone who is roughly 83 in all melee stats. Are 3 levels that much more important than the people that would belong to the clan? I know that y'all want to become a warring powerhouse, but that isn't what WG should be. We have always stood apart from others by not being the clan that is 100% warring. Also, the skill level of a person far surpasses the 3 defence levels that would be gained by raising the requirements. And even with that, I am sure that on my account, I could out tank a few people who are higher combat than me. And then comes the argument "They are higher combat, so they have more experience". That is extremely untrue. I saw a little fucktard at black demons the other day who knew almost nothing about combat even though he was 134 or so. Money in this game and combat levels are almost meaningless now. Just because they are a high level does not mean jack shit. --------------------      | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:14 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 | The trial is fairly demanding as it is. I suggest we just have one solid level requirement. -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:17 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Gusmighster Group: Emeritus Posts: 1360 Member No.: 46 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | I have deja-vu, I swear! What are the real positives of a raise? --------------------  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:18 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | To support my post count, I am not going to edit this in, just because it is a continuation of thoughts and kinda reflects on other's posts.  I did train my ass of to 100F2P just to be in WG. Why? There were no decent clans that had requirements under 100F2P when I joined. If another "top" clan was 100F2P, then WG would have had competition for my application, but because WG stood as the lowest, it gave both me and Dave a chance to join. Just because I am dedicated, doesn't mean that others are. Let's get those that are 100F2P in WG before they have time to gain 5 combat levels and look at another clan. With the influx of staff members, I am sure we can figure something out that will make them train while in WG. I think the staff is just mad that people can't tank. EDIT: In support of what Gus says, what will improve if we increase requirements? -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:28 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: ThisIsUnique Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1664 Member No.: 1417 Joined: October 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 141 |
No we aren't mad because ppl can't tank. we arent thinking of increasing the level to be a part of the community and clan events but something like an fa system imported in our application system with different combat requirements to become full guardian etc. Not going to say much about this because we're discussing it. -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:30 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 |
When it is said like that, that provides a completely different argument than the initial "requirement change" that everyone thinks of. I have points to agree with that system and points to disagree. -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:33 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Squelchyfish Group: Emeritus Posts: 625 Member No.: 38 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 71 | Not what i meant. --------------------   "Take lobsters because I don't want us to die" -HisLordship on WG pvp PKing, 26 April 2010. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:33 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 | What I want personally is the ability to be in WG as a FA at 100 combat, but not attend any PvP events. Then, you can apply to be a trial guardian at 105 combat, and by then if you've had all your events/supporters, you can instantly post your graduation to full guardian. --------------------  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:35 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 | We have this issue every 6 months to 1 year and in the end we find it never works. Either raise the reqs to 120 or don't raise them at all. Anything between 120 and 100 we lose potential members and at 120 we at least have the power. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:37 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Given what happened last time we raised our requirements, I'd say this is a bad idea. However, given the data that Keanu has pointed out, we have 6 members below 105 F2P combat. Three are already 104, so getting that last level shouldn't take long. Two are 102 and getting 3 levels is pretty simple, and we've got one that's sitting on 100 combat so getting those five levels might take a bit more time. Given that, I think a raise to 105 is pretty fair. It's not too much pressure on those that will be affected. At the same time I'd like to suggest an 82 Magic requirement, again just a suggestion since we're on the topic of requirements. It makes sense since we're going more into P2P. At the moment we've got 17 people below 82 Magic. That's quite a few. Here is the breakdown: 2 @ level 80 1 @ level 79 2 @ level 77 1 @ level 76 1 @ level 73 2 @ level 72 3 @ level 71 1 @ level 67 1 @ level 55 1 @ level 52 This would then give us the advantage of having everyone be a possibly mager in a fight. This would eliminate the "I don't have the level for it" excuse. The mage thing is a bit more intense especially those that are <70 Magic. It's also costly so that's a factor. Either way, we could ease into this. As far as just combat goes, I'd like to see us just step it up a notch. It's not a huge change but seeing as most of us meet it already I don't see the harm in at least testing it out. --------------------  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:38 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: ThisIsUnique Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1664 Member No.: 1417 Joined: October 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 141 | We havent really figured it out 100% but it would kind of be like darth said -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:39 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Group: Emeritus Posts: 505 Member No.: 20 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 27 |
I like the idea of this, rather than just having the minimum required ranks be raised to 105. This way the FAs can still get to know the clan in a good manner, and give them something to look forward to (wars). And this will have them in a different mindset when it comes times to war. They will be wanting to war because this is something they weren't previously allowed to do. -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:43 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 |
EXACTLY! It's a game of psychology. -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:43 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Kyle's idea sounds more solid than a simple increase in requirements. We still get the lower levels, but before they start representing WG they show what they've got first. I think the REAL thing that needs to be changed is the graduation system, not requirements or levels at all. -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 04:59 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Does anyone remember the last fa system we had? Apps plummeted because it meant getting into wg was harder. The fa system will hurt recruitment. That is the entirety of my warning. Council is smarter this time though. If you can do it without hurting recruitment, I will be impressed. -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: December 21, 2009 05:01 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 | Then perhaps not a FA system. Maybe a required training program, I.E. OPH or Pro Silentium? -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Requirement Raise