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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: September 28, 2008 05:42 am  | |||
      IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129    | What are council terms? Each council member is elected in for a 4-6 month period. After that they are put up for re-election, meaning they can be replaced by someone else if the clan sees fit. PROS - Forces the council to remain hard working in order to be re-elected - Inactive council members are pruned - Gives more chances to other members to try the leadership - The clan is more democratic and has more influence in the decision making process CONS - It's a bit of an insult to the leadership if they get rejected - Security problems, with Level 4 information being revealed to too many people (if the council keeps changing) - Leadership will only work for the short term in order to get re-elected, rather than consider long term plans for the future - Could demonstrate instability if the council keeps rotating ________________ I was asked by a few members to implement this idea, so it's up for vote now. My personal stance is no, because when you elect a council member, you are placing your trust that they will do the job. You don't need to motivate them with the threat of denying them power. --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 05:55 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: karel Group: Emeritus Posts: 1021 Member No.: 57 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 89 | I think we have had too many council members who have done too little and this idea might be worth trying because it would make things more fresh and interesting- with a rotation will come many different ideas and should defiantly help the clan. Anyways, a good council member will get re-elected, and in the end, this clan is for the members. If a unproductive council is removed, it will benefit everyone. -------------------- Sig? | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 06:03 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | I'm with Karel, I like the idea. I think the way things are now, if a member of the Council isn't doing what he should be doing, nothing can really make him do anything about it except himself. Nobody can force them out, and they leave when they feel like it. This system would force member of the Council to be on their A-game at all times. Sure, if a member is inactive due to RL problems, there just cause for their inactivity, but then should that person really be in a position of power? Should they be obliged to lead a clan when their RL is not in the best shape? Should we have to put up with members that just don't have the time to lead us? No. We really should change things up. One election isn't enough. The Council position is very important, and we need all members to be active. --------------------   | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 08:06 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Gusmighster Group: Emeritus Posts: 1360 Member No.: 46 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | I don't know. I see both the pros and the cons very clearly and can see why someone would vote for either side. So I nulled. --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 08:30 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | Mmm very hard decision. Well I would say that it should be up to the leader and the other council to say that a council member is inactive and if one is he/she should either become more active or step down. I really dont know about the vote. The problem with having a solid rotation of too many council is yeah as you said leaking of lvl 4 , but also instability and too many different changes all at once... I've got to say no. --------------------    | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 09:01 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Type Group: Guest Posts: 223 Member No.: 686 Joined: May 24, 2008 Total Events Attended: 16 | IMO it will just start fights, swuabbling and leaving topics. Good idea but I see too many flaws in it. --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 09:14 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 | Popularity contests will play a big role in this, and we could end up with a bad council member. There is also the drama about how this guy wasn't elected etc. Level 4 stuff will also be compromised and they might be leaked. Think of it as the army, you don't get elected by fellow soldiers, no, you get promoted when your superiors think you're worthy of a promotion. I'd say keep things the way they are atm, if people think a council member isn't doing his job then they can pm you (Eugene) so you can look into it. The idea has some good in it but the negative stuff are a lot more than the good ones. --------------------  MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 09:14 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Mickey Group: Emeritus Posts: 5305 Member No.: 48 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 282 | If a council is inactive, they should step down etc. I think that doing this takes away the clans trust in people. I trust the council to do well for WG, I don't think pressuring them with votes will make them do any better in the time they will have left. --------------------    | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 09:54 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | I vote NO. I even think this post is a bad idea. Maybe a one year term with a two week vacation then back to council. With no vote. This would give them a forced time to evaluate themselves and if they decided to step down, it would be the best time to do it. This would cause way to much drama and stuff. Maybe have one or two substitutes that council chooses to help them when they have rl things that make them a lil less active. This would help on forum and irc. I don't think popularity voting is going to help the clan in any way. We need mature and dedicated council like we have. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 10:57 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Pazenon Group: Emeritus Posts: 1477 Member No.: 33 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 79 | I really like the idea, but don't you think that 4-6 months is somewhat a long period? The majority of the people retiring from council do it within 2-3 months of their reign, some even earlier than that. If someone can guarantee that this council member will stay for 4-6 months, then the idea would be flawless, lol. But think about what would happen if one of the elected council members chose to retire before that period. Just make the period shorter and it's all good, I think.  -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 11:18 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | I think that if isn't implemented, that the Council should at least put out more of the "What's being discussed" type of posts just so we know what's going on. I mean, not to make the Council sound lazy or anything, but we don't really know if you're doing anything. For all we know, the latest post about Council activity could have just been done on spur of the moment with nothing beforehand and nothing after. I'm sure this isn't the case, but it would just be nice to know what the Council is doing so we know what's going on. Obviously certain things will be kept quiet, but just a simple "We're talking about something in Level 4, and when it's ready to be discussed we'll post specifics, but just want you guys to know that we are talking about things to implement." Those are always very reassuring. -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 12:14 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: bto Group: Emeritus Posts: 3815 Member No.: 196 Joined: February 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 332 | Rotation sounds good, but im more concerned about the application process Its no secret that most of hte time, council are elected on popularity. A "popularity contest" as some put it. Instead of listing whos running, we leave them unlisted, and have the people vote based on the unknown applicant's applications. Of course, I doubt anyone reads the stuff, so I guess we can make it a requirement of a maximum of ___________, or use points. They'll have to be to the point and direct. -------------------- bto  Ex-WG Warlord  "It is our direction, not our intentions, that lead us to our destinations." | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 12:24 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | I agree with both of the ideas brought forwards by Bto and Colonel respectively. Sometimes it is nice to be given a "Behind The Scenes" look at what the council is planning on doing soon. It intrigues us and makes us wait for what is to come. It also gives the members a sense of what y'all are doing, rather than thinking that you are all a group of lazy bums (even though I know that truly you all are.  )Also, some people would look at an application and see "Oh well I like Person Y, he has been nice to me" and vote him regardless of reading the other applications. This could leave figures that might be great for the council position but quiet and to themselves, hidden. I'll be honest.. I would only read half of what someone would post on an application if I knew who posted it, but this would force us to read at least that much, if not more, to decide on who we are voting for. --------------------      | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 12:25 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Mangomaniac2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 536 Member No.: 70 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 63 | Although it would indeed solve a few problems, I don't think it should happen. If you're elected council, you're supposed to be active. If not, then you have the responsibility to step down and let someone else do a better job. Plus, I would have felt offended if I had to be relected when I was council. EDIT: To bto: Though that might be fairer, its not completely fair either. One candidate might have amazing writing skills, yet has done little for the clan besides preach of a perfect place. While another member, who might have helped out a ton, is hard working, and is liked by the community, may not be good at writing an application. The clan has to be able to use a person's actions to also determine who is deserving of council. Plus, it is good to have council that are at least somewhat well-liked. The popularity contest isn't a good thing, but who wants a council member whom the whole clan despises? --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 01:05 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Cam Group: Ex-Member Posts: 749 Member No.: 24 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 | Voted No, just dont like the idea. --------------------  Halo 3 - General Grade 3 ~ CoD4 - 10th Prestige 55 ~ MW2 - 9th Prestige 50 Joined WG 8th August 2006 - Im old School son | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 03:39 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: ``Pete Group: Banned Posts: 913 Member No.: 775 Joined: June 6, 2008 Total Events Attended: 49 | Hell yes. -------------------- Mikel Arteta  Tim CahillNothing But The Best | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 03:59 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Jesseh Group: Guest Posts: 2670 Member No.: 297 Joined: March 8, 2008 Total Events Attended: 222 | Definately, to become a member of staff and stay on will be a boost to everyone, and also sometimes it's good for fresh blood. --------------------   17/6/08--> 12/9/08--> 29/11/08--> 5/1/09--> 2/3/09(Left)--> 19/7/09(Rejoin)--> 2/8/09
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Posted: September 28, 2008 04:12 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Bammit Bob, whenever I see you post I keep thinking it's Wind because your avatars match.  If I ever ran a clan this is how I'd do it, frequent leadership elections with actual limits on how many consecutive terms you could actually serve so you'd be forced to have an entirely new council roughly once a year, minimum. I'd also have the primary leader position open for elections, and control the whole issue through a clan constitution that could only be amended by a 75% majority vote by the clan. It'd be a huge civics experiment, basically. I don't think this is what WG should do, though. People have problems with popularity contests; I think that's absurd. THAT'S HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS! You pick who you like (hopefully for the right reasons) and if enough people agree with you then they get elected and you either 1) celebrate, or 2) find out you're an idiot. I'd like set council reelections/elections because 1) it'd give people a better idea of how the council operates, and the chance to decide if they'd actually like to take the responsibility for being a council member (hopefully making actual council members more respected), and 2) because I think having indefinite terms until "gosh I don't feel like doing this anymore" rolls around is moronic. If you make a council member responsible for when he or she decides to step down, then you're making them feel too self-conscious about the decision. Life's a learning experience, trying to eliminate making mistakes eliminates the ability to learn from them and will eventually eliminate basic intelligence in the human race, which would suck. But I don't think this would be a good idea for WG, at least not yet. Mostly because of secrecy issues and the way we're used to having this clan run. Maybe we could have a permanent "high council" that deals with secret stuff and an elected council that deals with general council stuff? That'd be months or years down the road, I just figured I'd mention it. What I think would be a good idea is to have set times for council members to step down IF THEY WANT TO. They can step down at any time whenever if they need to, but there could be 2-3 times a year that everyone on the council can sit down and say "Alright, do I want a break or do I want to do this again for another 4-6 months?" Those who want to keep at it can keep at it, those who want a break for awhile can step down and the electoral process takes over. Long posts win much? Rawr! --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 04:32 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | Wow it's pretty even. We need to get more votes in! -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 05:43 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Jenny Group: Emeritus Posts: 1967 Member No.: 19 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 56 | People who get council should have enough responsibility to know when they need to step down. I voted no. Serve WG and when you are no longer effective or truly burnt out then resign. --------------------   | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 05:47 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls Group: Banned Posts: 2956 Member No.: 422 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 130 |
^ Exactly why I voted No. -------------------- Mugger84 Member Of WG Since 4th April 2008. WG Raid Leader Since 20th June 2008. WG Council Since 20th November 2008. Banned from WG Since 6th March 2009. DF IG Since 6th March 2009. DF FA Since 15th March 2009. Ex-Member Of WG Since 26th March 2009. Member of DF Since 6th April 2009. Clan Friend of WG Since 4th June 2009. --- ||Ex-WG Warlord || Current Member of DF || Ex-Rampage Leader ||  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 06:42 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Why does this thread keep showing up under new posts when there aren't any new posts?  -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 07:09 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | Nah. If you look at the whole picture, its pretty clear that council self-regenerate. Everyone takes a natural course and leave after a certain period of time, hardly any last over a year. People leave when they're ready to leave. What's more, the ones who stay on longer have more experience. It really isn't fair that they have to re-apply when they've slaved away for half a year, to compete with newbies. New people are joining council all the time, you need the experienced ones or WG will keep going forwards and backwards without getting anywhere. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 08:11 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2842 Member No.: 815 Joined: June 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 48 | I like the idea of having terms. I think the pros of having terms outways the the cons better than not having them -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 28, 2008 09:00 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Banned Posts: 2447 Member No.: 114 Joined: January 8, 2008 Total Events Attended: 149 |
 Yup, all to annoy you. Matching sig and avvies ftw!If you could rotate the elections, so that not every one is being replaced at once. I feel the benefits of this outweigh any problems that may occur. Look at how long Renoldojr10 was still council, even though he hadn't talked to any one for a long time! -------------------- | ||
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