| . : News : . | . : Message of the Week : . |
You are currently viewing an archive of the Wilderness Guardians clan's IPB1 forums.
These forums were used by WG from 2008 to 2011, and now exist for historical and achival purposes only. For the clan's current forums, CLICK HERE. |
"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
|---|---|---|
| War Alert: OFF | Raid Alert: OFF | |
PM a WG Official |
||
Posted: September 12, 2009 12:32 am  | |||||||
      IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21    |
so if i killed you because you made me mad, is that ok?(TOTAL "WHAT IF", JEEZ dun hate me) Because your life isn't any different that the grass on the ground? Really? --------------------  | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 12:32 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Sum41xx Group: Emeritus Posts: 630 Member No.: 102 Joined: January 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 0 | I personally think this problem will always be a bit of an issue between those who believe it is wrong and those who believe it is not. The only way I see this issue coming to an agreement is if scientists discover whether a fetus is actually sentient (aware of being alive) in the womb. If they discover this, then perhaps anytime before the fetus is sentient would be considered civilized and not a completely horrible thing to do. Yet again, you still do take a way a life, or at least the potential for life no matter what. I honestly have no idea on my personal view of the topic though. Because I don't know what I would do if I got a girl pregnant. --------------------   Proud WG member since December 2003 | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 12:37 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 |
They can feel pain and they brace against multiple pricks w/ a probe(saw it from a vid of ultrasound), not sure if it can ever be proven a fetus is capable of being alive though =/ -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 12:47 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Sum41xx Group: Emeritus Posts: 630 Member No.: 102 Joined: January 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 0 |
Yeah. But then that gets even more complicated and gets down to whether its simply the cell network reacting or the fetus. A question we don't know-YET.  -------------------- Proud WG member since December 2003 | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 02:28 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Pazenon Group: Emeritus Posts: 1477 Member No.: 33 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 79 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkp8-vuOWYU&feature=related -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 03:10 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
Step A: Find a girl (If female find a boy) Step B: Have unprotected sex and get pregnant Step C: Pretend you want an abortion Step B: The government pays you £10k if you give birth and put it up for adoption 9 months later = 10k Profit Repeat from Step A. --------------------  [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 07:32 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 |
will we ever lol? Doubt it. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 05:24 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Mr Glennfase Group: Emeritus Posts: 3064 Member No.: 39 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 220 | Just putting this out there. I think a child would prefer to live in difficulty than not live at all. Life is hard. If you get pregnant and you're not ready, deal with it and put it up for adoption once its born. It'd rather live in an orphanage than be killed by a knife. EDIT: Also, people think abortion is killing a tiny, microscopic egg. Abortion is usually after 8-12 weeks into pregnancy. The baby has a developed heart, lung, brain, nervous system, etc. It doesn't look like a human being, but its damned close. The last half of pregnancy is the simpler part of growing. Trust me, this baby screams and goes through an insane amount of pain as its literally cut up by a doctor's version of a butcher's knife. If you say you're really pro choice, I ask one thing from you. I plead that you watch an abortion take place, and THEN judge if you think its right or not. If you don't have the balls to witness the killing, fuck off and don't judge who has the right to live or not. -------------------- That's Mr. Glennfase to you. Ex-Warlord/Council  | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 05:29 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
[Source needed] -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 05:39 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: txtawkin/kathy Group: Ex-Member Posts: 847 Member No.: 1604 Joined: December 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 45 |
When it is a medical necessity to terminate a pregnancy due to anomalies, this is how it happens. A solution is injected directly into the fetal heart that stops it within about 30 seconds. Then the patient is admitted to the hospital and induced to start labor. The baby is delivered dead but in one piece. These parents usually hold their child before releasing it to the funeral home for a proper burial. It is a very sad and tragic process but better than enduring the rest of the entire pregnancy and then giving birth and going through it. --------------------  | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 05:43 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | I'm sort of in the middle as well, because to give a proper decision you really need to do the research. If I had to chose, I'd be pro-abortion. That's the gut feeling answer, but it depends on the circumstances. If the baby is not going to get a good life, and always be seen as a 'mistake', that's a horrible way to grow up and often with negative consequences. Abortion should be a last option but sometimes its the best way. It is very immoral, but humans aren't much different to animals. We kill animals and their young all the time, we eat eggs which could have been fertilised to make little chickens, its part of life. I'd say the most important thing is that its an informed decision. Whatever the decision, its crucial that a lot of thought went into it and whatever occurs is done for the greater good. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 05:45 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Mr Glennfase Group: Emeritus Posts: 3064 Member No.: 39 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 220 | Txt. Abortion clinics are not so efficient. They give anti-pain meds to the woman herself, and that's it. There is often permanent damage to womens' vaginas in the process as well. Sure if there's a medical necessity or danger to the mother, yes, killing one instead of two people is the lesser of two evils. But this is almost none of the abortions. Rape victims only account for about 2% of abortions... My social justice class did a 6 week research project on abortions last year. We watched an uncensored video of an abortion. Multiple people puked, and one passed out. Its the sickest, most cruel thing I have ever seen in my life. After gross cutting, the doctor sucks out segments of baby arms, legs, torso parts, etc. Its fucking brutal. "If I had to chose, I'd be pro-abortion. That's the gut feeling answer, but it depends on the circumstances. If the baby is not going to get a good life, and always be seen as a 'mistake', that's a horrible way to grow up and often with negative consequences. Abortion should be a last option but sometimes its the best way." -Tnuac Dude. A baby would rather live than be killed. You don't know what's best for it. They are just as much human as we are. They grow up, have friends, get jobs, etc. Just as gays aren't hung, why should a baby not be allowed to grow up? -------------------- That's Mr. Glennfase to you. Ex-Warlord/Council | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 05:48 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 | ^ Thanks for clearing that up. Injection into heart, 30 seconds. Not exactly the most pleasant way for it to happen but better than the lovely picture Glenn painted. Main reasons from wiki on induced abortion: * save the life of the pregnant woman * preserve the woman's physical or mental health * terminate pregnancy that would result in a child born with a congenital disorder that would be fatal or associated with significant morbidity or * selectively reduce the number of fetuses to lessen health risks associated with multiple pregnancy. So, the mother could die or lose her sanity without abortion, or the child could be born with a fatal or severe disability and Glenn says, in his exact words, "deal with it" This is a neverending argument  -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 05:54 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: txtawkin/kathy Group: Ex-Member Posts: 847 Member No.: 1604 Joined: December 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 45 | That is true in some cases Glenn. I wish that these types of abortions would never take place honestly. I am afraid however that to prevent those the extreme "pro lifers" are trying to prevent all terminations, no matter what the reason. Dr. Tiller is a good example of "pro life" extreme action. This man was one of the few in the country doing abortions after 24 weeks. Late term abortions such as those were usually done because the family just found out something horrible and has made the decision to terminate. The procedure would take place as I explained before, under ultrasound guidance so that only one needle stick was required. Most of the elective abortions of "convenience" take place early in pregnancy. I personally would prefer restrictions on those types of abortions, but it needs to always be available when medically necessary. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 06:08 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Mr Glennfase Group: Emeritus Posts: 3064 Member No.: 39 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 220 | Look up cases of women who have endured abortions. Look, specifically, at immediately after, one year after, 5 years after, and 10 years after. Within a year, MOST regret it. Not all. Some don't, but most do. "Main reasons from wiki on induced abortion: * save the life of the pregnant woman * preserve the woman's physical or mental health * terminate pregnancy that would result in a child born with a congenital disorder that would be fatal or associated with significant morbidity or * selectively reduce the number of fetuses to lessen health risks associated with multiple pregnancy." The REALISTIC REASON MOST GET AN ABORTION IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK THEY CAN HANDLE A CHILD + THE ENDURANCE WILL BE "TOUGH" FOR THEM. SUCK IT UP, YOU HAD UNPROTECTED SEX AND YOU'RE AN IDIOT. IF YOU DON'T STUDY FOR A TEST, YOU FAIL IT. DROPPING OUT OF SCHOOL ISN'T THE SOLUTION, LIVING WITH YOUR MISTAKE IS. If you know the baby is going to die, then get an abortion. That rarely happens and makes up a jokingly small portion of abortions. People and their self-deception disallow them to ever admit something was EVER their fault. This is why our society is bust. One of the most realistic quotes I've ever heard is that "The biggest argument against Democracy is a 5 minute chat with the average voter." We're all retards. Barely anyone knows what they're talking about. They hear something, so they believe it and vote for it. There's near no line of critical thought. People just absorb what they hear. If there is no MEDICAL reason to get an abortion, why should people be allowed to. Its bullshit. They don't want to go through the pain, and they don't want to be embarrassed. I feel they deserve both for being an idiot. If you aren't ready to have a baby, why are you having unprotected sex? Fucking idiots. Now, all of you are going to say "well obviously their condom broke, so it was an accident." Bullshit. Near all teenage pregnancies are because they convinced themselves they couldn't get pregnant, even if it was unprotected sex. Live up to what you do. Most people don't. I guarantee that when you do something wrong and you don't want to get in trouble, most people lie and blame someone else. Grow up. -------------------- That's Mr. Glennfase to you. Ex-Warlord/Council | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 09:01 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Anthonysc Group: Emeritus Posts: 49 Member No.: 1730 Joined: February 20, 2009 Total Events Attended: 0 | ArSeNaLfAn32 your concept of what abortion is, is made up of anti-abortion propaganda, as far as I know (which is pretty far considering my area of study), they haven't performed abortions like that it decades. 99.9% of induced abortions are what txtawkin describes. -------------------- Ex-Secondary Leader, Ex-Council, The Original Forum Tech Original Join Date: 23-October 04 | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 09:21 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | Glenn, I do see where you're coming from. I'm talking about the rare cases where the child would be extremely unhappy / mistreated / abused / or in the rare cases contemplating suicide. But of course, because the government should give support money to single mothers and couples in the situation, the cases will only be rare. Though, in some cases the kid will go through the tough times and make something of themselves. As long as they're just deprived and not abused or mistreated, they could do well in life. Many famous people have tough backgrounds. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow" | ||||||
Posted: September 12, 2009 10:05 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 |
I have to agree here, Glenn you're looking at the Anti-Abortion propaganda and not a balenced arguement. Mind you this would not be the first or 'only' time I have heard of an education provider presenting their views rather than fact when 'teaching'. Hence why I have a Climate Change Lecturer that will not present any info on the human caused climate change argument as he 'doesnt think' its true, lol. --------------------  Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||||
Posted: September 13, 2009 02:14 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | 1. Nuke all humans. 2. ??? 3. Profit! I'm bored of debating lol. -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=-  W I N N I N G | ||||||
Posted: September 13, 2009 02:19 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
You're not the only one lol, Pro-choice and Pro-life both over-exaggerate their points by miles and we're never gonna come to a compromise. There is no balanced argument cause this is one of the topics in which you can make the subject of the matter look as good or as bad as you want it to. Depends on which side you're on. -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||
Posted: September 13, 2009 02:21 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
| ||||||
Posted: September 13, 2009 11:15 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Mickey Group: Emeritus Posts: 5305 Member No.: 48 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 282 | I'm half and half. I don't believe that you should abort a child in the making, purely because even at such an early stage, it still deserves a chance at life. But at the same time, I can agree with it on some parts. I believe that people unfit to be parents should abort. It's always a shame to see a baby die due to child neglect or abuse. The baby shouldn't have to suffer, they should have just aborted it in the first place. --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: September 13, 2009 11:36 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: ``Aaron Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1055 Member No.: 149 Joined: January 21, 2008 Total Events Attended: 34 | What if your mom had an abortion? --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: September 13, 2009 11:37 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
I'd be like thank god, one less Runescaper  -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||
Posted: September 13, 2009 11:45 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: ``Aaron Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1055 Member No.: 149 Joined: January 21, 2008 Total Events Attended: 34 |
I see the complete opposite throughout my entire education. My teachers present everything on climate change as human caused and the earth cant be going through cycles. Teachers always preach their views and beliefs and not the truth. But where did Glenn get brainwashed? He was shown a simple video of an actual abortion. Last time I checked Abortion IS legal. Maybe the teacher was provoking thought before the teens in his/her class had unprotected sex. -------------------- | ||||||
Abortion
