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Posted: May 23, 2009 01:26 am  | |||
      IRC Nickname: txtawkin/kathy Group: Ex-Member Posts: 847 Member No.: 1604 Joined: December 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 45    | Obama and Cheney are duking it out in the media this week concerning whether the US should waterboard or not? Is waterboarding torture and should the American government be using it to interogate suspects? Discuss. --------------------  | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 01:42 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: ``Aaron Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1055 Member No.: 149 Joined: January 21, 2008 Total Events Attended: 34 | Well, he doesn't wanna release the photos. In my opinion he's running out of people to blame stuff on. So he's trying to keep whats been going on for the last 8 years going, "Its Bush's fault" EDIT: well I meant more of "attention shifters", he knows everyone hates Bush so, it solves itself basically. but that could just be me. Waterboarding is completely non-lethal, but yes it is torture, but how else are you supposed to extract information? According to the Geneva Convention all the terrorists are spies as they do not wear a uniform and are killing innocent civilians. Im all for preventing another 9/11. A side note: Barack Obama wants somewhere around 87 million dollars to close GITMO. Does anyone else find this funny? 87 million dollars? Really? --------------------    | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 02:22 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 |
@Bolded part: He said he isn't trying to look back and not blame anyone else, but the ~25 times he referenced the Bush administration negatively in that same speech was just a typo I suppose. I wish we cuold just tell which ones are terrorists, then you could just like kill on the spot (well, if it didn't piss liberals off). But w/e idk enough about waterboarding etc to really make a decision on whether we should be doing it or not. --------------------    | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 04:11 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2842 Member No.: 815 Joined: June 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 48 | I think we should torture the terrorists any way that it takes. --------------------  | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 05:27 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Colin Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2039 Member No.: 68 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 | I don't really care either way, but here's an interesting article pertaining to the subject. http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/05/conservat...s-waterboarded/ --------------------  Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009 | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 05:43 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Well, my opinion is this: Waterboarding is torture. Given that it is torture, we shouldn't do it. @Aaron You bring up the "It's Bush's fault" stuff. Well, it is. Isn't it? I'm not going to hide it, I'm no Bush fan. Obviously it's a little petty to constantly blame Bush, but what about when Fox media is already blaming stuff on Obama. I personally believe that 9/11 was Bush's fault (given the evidence about a report that was given to him telling him what was going to happen) - it happened on his watch. He took office on Jan. 20th, 2001, and 9/11 happened about 8 months later. Obama took office the same day and now it's May (almost June) which is about 4 months. So if four months in, things Obama is doing are indeed his fault, why isn't 9/11 Bush's fault? Anyway, that's a tad off-topic. Back to waterboarding. Despite the fact that waterboarding is non-lethal we still shouldn't do it. I'm all for protecting my country and getting information, but not like this. I almost want to think of waterboarding as cheating on a test. It's wrong (because it's torture) but you're trying to make sure you don't fail the next test (it'll keep you out of college lets say). You've got a strong motive to do it, but is it right? Obviously this is different, but the principle of it I think is in the ballpark. We're a country that isn't supposed to torture. We oppose torture. There is one possibly loophole I can see, which Aaron brought up. They've no uniform. So the whole "if we torture them, they can torture us" thins is in a sense tossed out the window. Still, it's wrong. We've condemned it. We've punished people who did it. What makes us not liable? the fact of the matter is, waterboarding is wrong, because it is torture. People who did it and ordered it should be punished. I don't care who it is, if Obama had ordered the CIA to torture someone, it would be just as wrong to me. Sure I like him, but torture is torture. We don't do it, or at least we're not supposed to. @Sith I am 100% against you on that. Torture is wrong, no matter what way you look at it. --------------------   | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 10:57 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | No to torture. However, only the very barest of living necessities could be provided and over time the greed of wanting better could be the reward to get us information. Only serve the same icky food and water everyday til they give information. Upgrade living arrangements from a small 4x4 room to a slight bigger one with information. I'm not against denying them a lot of clothes either, but naked is going to far. They at least need undergarments. They should always be treated civil as well. Denying good things is not torture but more like punishment. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 12:09 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Stokenut Group: Guest Posts: 2062 Member No.: 805 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 112 | If it's going to help protect us from the likes of terrorist bombers and chuck norris then I'm all for it. The media act as if they'll pull any random off the street and start torturing them. How else would you expect them to extract information vital to the welfare of the US (and potentially the whole world), without mutilating the individual? Say pretty please with sugar on top? When you think about all the ways they could extract information, this is by far the most humane. -------------------- Over 6 years of history and friendship, deleted over a difference in an opinion. --- Challenge any creationist to a debate. They'll run away and aggressively accuse you of "attacking" them and their "beliefs". I'm sorry, please, keep teaching our kids that they'll burn in hell if they don't believe. Mutilate their genitals against their will while you're at it. Keep influencing politics and holding back vital scientific research. I'll just keep my mouth shut to "respect" your "beliefs". | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 03:30 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2842 Member No.: 815 Joined: June 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 48 |
Sorry, there is no protection again the almighty Chuck Norris -------------------- | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 06:21 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | if someone waterboarded me I would spout any shit they wanted me too.....meaning I would lie about anything they asked me to tell..... torture does not = truth Torture= Lies --------------------  | ||
Posted: May 23, 2009 09:26 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Jenny Group: Emeritus Posts: 1967 Member No.: 19 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 56 | Do whatever it takes to make us safe. Did terrorists (some who are in Gitmo now) stop to think about anything when they did 9/11? If one innocent person is saved because they experience some discomfort I certainly won't lose sleep at night. --------------------   | ||
Posted: May 24, 2009 08:41 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Jenny, you know I love you. But think about what you're saying. You're comparing us to them, and saying it's alright if we torture them because they hurt us mercilessly. But that just brings us down to their level. At that point, we're like them and we have no right to say otherwise. I'm all for keeping my country safe, but not at the expense of the things we stand for. If we continue to blatantly torture we lose global standing as a nation. -------------------- | ||
Posted: May 24, 2009 01:36 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guest Posts: 32 Member No.: 1578 Joined: December 23, 2008 Total Events Attended: 0 | You act like closing down Guantanamo will stop anything. You fail to realize that the CIA will do anything they have to in order to protect citizens of the United States, even when the president legally cripples their ability to do so. They don't wrap themselves in the hypocrisy of politics when they vow to protect the citizens of the U.S., they'll do what they have to regardless of consequences, even if president dickless tells them they aren't allowed to waterboard. -------------------- | ||
Posted: May 25, 2009 02:19 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: spanthrax Group: Ex-Member Posts: 813 Member No.: 29 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 37 | personally if your in gitmo because your a terrorist, you dont have american civil liberties or rights. and as such i think we should just shoot em in the head and be done with it. as far as im concerned terrorists dont deserve the right to trial and all that bullshit. your not american so why do you get rights. --------------------  | ||
To torture or not?, What do you think???