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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: January 31, 2010 06:20 pm  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: Bam Group: Emeritus Posts: 2762 Member No.: 131 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 111    | Well i was just thinking and....prisons and other correctorial facilieties are there to rehabilitate and resocialize convicts, right? that is the function of it. so if some has commited a accidental murder, that means if the person had no intentions on killing/hurting anybody, why is he still being imprisoned? what is the funtion of the penitentiary in this point? there is nothing to rehabilitate him from, no point in resocializing that person. So why do people like that still get even up to a life sentence? --------------------   | ||||
Posted: January 31, 2010 06:36 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: ka pineapple Group: Ex-Member Posts: 343 Member No.: 1277 Joined: August 15, 2008 Total Events Attended: 44 | If there's no intention to kill them doesn't it then make it manslaughter? Which is still a criminal offense. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: January 31, 2010 07:18 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Billy|Gilli Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1545 Member No.: 1451 Joined: November 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 91 | Because he killd sum1 --------------------    | ||||
Posted: January 31, 2010 07:21 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | I'm with Bam on this one. Bam, Western society is retributive in nature. I see thousands of kids pass through this clan and pity that they can't see a better way of justice. Justice is meant to correct people, not to make them suffer. Even in my own punishments as a leader, that is my goal. Retribution runs the world. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: January 31, 2010 07:31 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Stokenut Group: Guest Posts: 2062 Member No.: 805 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 112 | You wouldn't be sent to jail for life in the first place if it was a genuine, unavoidable accident. -------------------- Over 6 years of history and friendship, deleted over a difference in an opinion. --- Challenge any creationist to a debate. They'll run away and aggressively accuse you of "attacking" them and their "beliefs". I'm sorry, please, keep teaching our kids that they'll burn in hell if they don't believe. Mutilate their genitals against their will while you're at it. Keep influencing politics and holding back vital scientific research. I'll just keep my mouth shut to "respect" your "beliefs". | ||||
Posted: January 31, 2010 07:38 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Think about it this way: if it was impossible to go to jail if you hit a pedestrian with a car (unintentionally), would drivers drive more carefully or less carefully? --------------------  London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||
Posted: January 31, 2010 07:55 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Squelchyfish Group: Emeritus Posts: 625 Member No.: 38 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 71 |
The same way that you can go for jail for threatening chavs with a rolling pin who are robbing your house... The same way that a man sued a bank and won, because when he shot the bulletproof glass, it rebounded and hit him. His argument being that there was no notification that the glass was bulletproof. British, and generally all justice systems are rubbish. It is read by the book to the letter, which it was not intended to be, different systems warrent different reactions. --------------------   "Take lobsters because I don't want us to die" -HisLordship on WG pvp PKing, 26 April 2010. | ||||
Posted: January 31, 2010 10:13 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Billy|Gilli Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1545 Member No.: 1451 Joined: November 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 91 | If somebody kills somebody, they need to be punished, not corrected. Of course a complete accident is different, but no i think if somebody is in jail for murder, like shooting sum1 etc, they need to be punished not corrected. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 12:51 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 |
Involuntary manslaughter, I watched a case where a mother was convicted of this when her 5 year old son died in a fire and she wasn't there. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 02:13 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Matt|Multi Group: Emeritus Posts: 668 Member No.: 49 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 12 | If someone dies due to negligence on your part, then yes, I believe it is a crime. In the case of a genuinely unavoidable accident (Of which I believe there are very few if any at all), then that's a different matter entirely. -------------------- Born at sea, baptized in blood your fame will never die. Your Division is one of the best if not the best division in the history of American arms -Gen George S Patton on the 45th Infantry Division  | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 06:01 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Majeic Group: Ex-Member Posts: 775 Member No.: 1671 Joined: January 28, 2009 Total Events Attended: 77 | How can you accidently kill someone? If someone dies, and you're placed with the blame, it's because of your negligence. --------------------    | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 06:23 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
Rolling pin? I'd use a fucking butcher knife. But yes, everything the British government really does is fucked up. Justice is such a shit thing to debate. These days, it's more about punishment than solution. --------------------  [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 12:23 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Usually it's because although they didn't mean direct harm, they still recklessly endangered people by their actions leading up to the event. Aka: drunk drivers don't -INTENTIONALLY- go out and run people over, it's just a byproduct of their irresponsibility and they're still accountable for it. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 12:42 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Bam Group: Emeritus Posts: 2762 Member No.: 131 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 111 |
drunkdriving isn't really the same, since driving drunk is illegal in the first place, knowing you're not capable driving safe and still do it is something you can actually call "intentionally". like an example: you're walking down the road and stumble on something while trying to note something with a pen... And you fall right over some other due passing by, without ANY chance of of avoiding the collision. And what happens next is you both fall down, you#re on top and the pen you were holding is stuck up his throat or something. He ends up dead and you end up in jail. Why? -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 03:14 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | According to the business law class I took last semester, the only answer would be that your attorney totally sucked at his job. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 06:09 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Fire Lion Sword Group: Emeritus Posts: 1189 Member No.: 103 Joined: January 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 3 | It's pointless to shed an example of a crime unless every significant detail is identified. I think Eregion, Majeic, Multi, Billy, Squelchy, and the Frenchman summed up my opinion pretty well. I believe, like virtually everything else in the world, the law is screwed... but it's not complete garbage. In many cases where people blame the law in general, it may not be law's fault entirely: judges can be corrupt; lawyers can be incompetent; the public body itself can even be misleading. There are numerous factors that can play into the corruption of a case. That's not to say that people aren't screwed by the law occasionally--because they are--but a person also has to be responsible enough to avoid trouble and be cautious with their actions; especially if their actions are potentially lethal to themselves or others. Genuine, unavoidable accidents have occurred, and people have been spared for them. As for the retributive nature of law and society today, I think people who commit serious crimes such as murder, assault, and rape should be punished accordingly. Otherwise, yes, maybe more correctional efforts can be invested in criminals with bad habits. -------------------- --------- 獅の炎 ----------  ----------- 忍☯者 ----------- | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 08:15 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Made me think about something my uncle told me in his area. Here in the USA, and at least in the places I've been, bikes have to go the same direction as cars (so you're driving/biking on the right hand side of the street). In the area my uncle lived in, there weren't any markings on the road which indicated that bikes HAVE to do that. In any case, someone was driving and made a right turn, and naturally only looked for oncoming traffic coming from the LEFT, because there's no real reason to look to the right because you're not crossing traffic. It just so happened that a kid was biking on the wrong side of the road, and when the guy turned, he hit and killed him. It was a complete accident, which could have been prevented. The man was not being reckless because he followed all the rules. Could he have been more careful and just taken a peek? Sure. The case went to court and he was found innocent because he didn't do anything wrong according to the law. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 09:23 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Ex-Member Posts: 580 Member No.: 42 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 0 | Manslaughter still means they broke the law. Even if it was an "Accident" there is still a reason they were there. They were doing something illegal that lead to the incident. -------------------- We will be alive and we will walk and talk and eat and sing and laugh and feel and love. You plan the wars, you masters of men, plan the wars and point the way and we will point the gun. Join Wg Late 2004 | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 09:35 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
But then, I quote Bam's example:
^ That would be manslaughter. Noting things with a pen and falling over is breaking the law?  -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||
Posted: February 1, 2010 11:47 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Technically, that would be negligence, since you're not paying attention to your surroundings. A better example would be if a fire hydrant in front of you suddenly burst -- inexplicably and with zero warning -- causing you to flail backwards and stab a man behind you in the neck with a pen you happened to be holding in your hand. If something happens that's quantified as completely outside the range of what should be expected in a given circumstance, then there's an argument against negligence. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 2, 2010 03:41 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | i think the ability to sue people for getting burnt by hot coffee(and cases like that) are full of shit and should not be done. The proof that shit like that has happened proves our law system is a failure. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: February 2, 2010 01:08 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | You can be over protective or you can be underprotective -- a perfect balance is impossible. If we had less we'd have a thread complaining about how courts were failing to the opposite degree; as it is, cases like that might be absurdly annoying, but they're the price of having a more comprehensive system of law. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 3, 2010 11:42 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Fire Lion Sword Group: Emeritus Posts: 1189 Member No.: 103 Joined: January 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 3 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apwjgE0n9fc -------------------- --------- 獅の炎 ---------- ----------- 忍☯者 ----------- | ||||
Accidental Murder