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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: December 29, 2008 08:16 pm  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137    | Well, I guess it’s time I say goodbye, at least for now. I’ve been here for so long and have seen WG change in so many ways. Some for the better, some for the worse. I’ll try to make things short, but I don’t know if it’ll be possible, just because I usually write way to much anyway. Some people already know I’ve been thinking about this, so they know why I’m leaving. Here’s why: I can’t stand the state WG is in right now, and has been for a while. For me, it’s not even about our reputation, or the amount and quality of our wars or raids, or attendance to other types of events. For me, the issue is just the way we treat each other. I know we’ve got one of the best communities around. I just can’t help but think we’ve also got one of the worst. Paradox, I know but it’s how I feel - convince me otherwise and I’ll stay. I guess for me this is more of an issue with the leadership and the rest of the clan (no disrespect to you guys, it’s just how I perceive things). I mean, WG is supposed to be a democratic clan - we vote on who should be second in command, whether or not some people should be kept in the clan or not and other things. I know it sounds petty but things like promotions. I remember the old system where people would post and request a promotion when they felt they were ready. They would highlight the things they thought earned them a promotion and then it went to the Council. If they felt those accomplishments were worthy of a promotion, then they granted it, if not then they declined it. Now, it’s a kind of “Hmm, what do I think I should reward?” and we all know what that is - activity. Nothing else really matters anymore. What I find sad is that activity is one thing and one thing only to WG - RuneScape. Yes, I know it’s a game we all play, but members can be active in more ways than that. Personally, I’ve suggested multiple improvements that I feel could really benefit WG, but nothing. It’s not even that they weren’t implemented, it was as if they weren’t even looked at. I’m sure they were, but I don’t know for sure. Some people have great ideas that seem like they’re overlooked completely for whatever reason. You guys (Council) ask us to sign-up for wars, but would it also be so hard for you to just make a quick post “Hey, that sounds like a good idea, needs a bit of work but I can talk it over with the other Council.” I mean, set an example. With that goes that fact that even if they are looked at, it’s as if it’s a way of just appeasing the suggester. I mean, we’ve been in a rough spot for a while now, I don’t think trying some suggestions would hurt, even if they don’t work according to plan, it’s worth a shot after being tinkered with - and if it doesn’t work, then you know. WG has become such a “top down” clan it’s not even funny. I know you could come back and say “You’ll never find a clan that gives as much leniency and freedom to it’s members as WG does! Stop complaining!” and I’m sure you’re right. Claiming the title of “Clan with the most leniency” isn’t much when the leniency is dwindling. I know this sounds like ranting because of activity, but it’s not. What I’m saying is that it’s as if we don’t have say in what goes on. Yes, we elected you all, but don’t we have some say, or at least the right to know what’s going on? We get an update every couple of months (if that) at best, and the rest of the time we’re left in the dark. I’d love to know how you’re planing to fix activity, or increase our reputation because I might have a suggestion for you. But no, I don’t get that chance. The Council takes it upon themselves to do EVERYTHING and personally I don’t think that’s right. Let us do some stuff, because I’m SURE many of us would be more than happy to help you guys, you just won’t let us in (like I’ve said before, we make suggestions but have no clue if you even read them or take them into account). Every month or so delegate something to the rest of us, let us come up with a plan and then you guys just take the parts that you like and make it work the way you see fit, but let us help you draft the solution. This is so much like a parental clan in the way that it’s “Council says this, members do. Council says this members do.” Treat us like teenagers at least, give us some responsibility in terms of actually helping the clan in ways more than “Hey, come to our event” because we all know there are more ways to offer something to WG than to play RuneScape. Now, I’m not going to only say bad stuff about the Council (which quite honestly isn’t bad, just an opinion and possible constructive criticism). You’re all fine members and pretty deserving of your positions. All are active, and I think with what we have now we’ve got most areas covered. You’re all working hard and have released a lot of announcements (keep in mind this is different from letting us in on what is going on, as opposed to revealing what has taken place - mainly for people who think I’m contradicting myself). Don’t want you guys thinking I’m not grateful for what you’ve done, and what you’re doing because I am grateful, I just think there are things that need to be changed. Keep it up guys. Now onto other things. I honestly feel the community is dead. We have forums that are barely changing from day to day. IRC is more of a hangout than a place to talk, it’s a lot of spam and a place to just AFK, fine. TS, almost nobody is in there if there isn’t a war. It’s like the only way to get someone’s attention is in-game, and honestly we shouldn’t limit ourselves to one mode of conversation. I’ve addressed it before, that we need to liven up the forums with stuff...anything. Debates, polls, questions and answers. The thing for me is we act so childish on the forums it isn’t even funny. I’m guessing it’s just me that is bothered, but I really can’t stand it (pet peeve I guess). We have so many topics that have just loads and loads of spam...and can’t really be maintained because there’s nothing to maintain. Serious topics are sometimes turned into spam boards and the serious message is never seen because people just quote each other and say “O I see wat you did thar! Lul!” That’s what the house of random is for. These topics are popping up everywhere now (obviously not everywhere, but it gets the idea across better). We’re so impersonal, but this has been slightly addressed with the recent change to applications. I mean, it’s pretty pathetic when you’re getting PMed by people asking “Hey, add this person because he needs one more friend on his list for his application.” Um...sorry but I don’t know him and you want me to be partially responsible for his acceptance? What happens if he turns out to be a bad apple? Great, I’d love to be a participant in that. Yes, I know it’s never looked at that way but the fact is that is what is true. Would it be so hard to actually have decent length conversations with 10 people in two or three weeks? I mean that less than one conversation a day...one measly conversation that only has to be decent length. Enough for me to get an understanding of who you are and whether or not I’d be all right with you being around WG and if I could tolerate you. No, we just ask around and hope some people just don’t care. Honestly, I also get the feeling many members don’t really care. Not that they don’t care about WG, but that they don’t care about members. We’ve got people leaving that haven’t graduated and they’re saying things like “You were a great trial, sad to see you go.” when the person has been around for maybe three weeks and attended one event if that and no wars. Great guardian...give me a break. Doesn’t really harm the clan in a way, but does give me the image of a clan that has members that are almost programmed into saying these things. It’s not just on leaving topics, but I see it a lot of the time with important threads. A lot of people just agree with whatever the leadership says and then leaves it at that. Personally, when I see an important topic, I look for all the flaws I can find and pick at them, because it’s no use letting the leadership implement something that they’re set on implementing without at least notifying them of some of the flaws - it’s in their best interest I do something like that, whether or not they listen is their prerogative. Back on topic, just stop. Stop with the sucking up. It’s sick to see really. I see people back up their “opinions” with half assed “reasons” which are basically regurgitated reasons they heard from someone else but caked in so much BS that you’d have to hack your way through to the stuff that might actually be useful. This happens on suggestions as well. If someone suggests something that goes against the status quo, people spit back the same reasons over and over, not that they don’t apply but it’s plainly obvious that the person has no real intentions of fixing anything, just wants to get on the leadership’s good side - waste of time. Again, so as not to be unfair to my fellow clanmates, I will say you guys are a lively bunch. Ready to have a good time, and pretty good at making someone’s bad day a good one for at least a little while. I’ll also say we’re very friendly with the people we’re familiar with (meaning to say not so friendly with new people besides their intro/application topic). Overall, we’re a pretty cheery place when it’s the few that really hangout. So, all in all, I guess what I’m trying to say is I’m fed up with WG. I can’t stand all the meaningless crap that goes on that is never addressed. I can’t stand all the BS that is never called out and a lot of the immaturity (albeit some immaturity is always a good thing) that is just allowed to flow into the community. I can’t stand the structure of the clan anymore. It’s basically the leadership’s clan and we do what they want. We rarely get updates, and although the announcements are clear, it would’ve been nice to be able to contribute something. We’re basically at the leadership’s mercy - so much for WG’s democracy. That’s the gist of it. I will say that I still think WG is a good clan, which is why my decision IS NOT SET IN STONE (for those of you that actually care if I stay or not). I ask not to be removed until the next war, I would like to support WG in one more war. Until then, if anyone actually cares enough to do something to keep me here (I only expect 2-3 people to actually try) I might revoke all this and stay - because it honestly is hard to leave. I’ve been here for so long, it’s hard to let go. So if you decide to post, don’t say the generic “Oh, I won’t try to stop you from leaving...blah blah blah,” because I’m basically asking you to try and stop me. I feel like I’ve given WG enough chances and nothing has really picked up, so talk me into giving us another chance before I just walk out. I want you to. But don’t give me the generic reasons because I’ll honestly receive them as insults. Don’t tell me “But you’ve got lots of friends here,” unless you actually know my friends here, and don’t start listing yourself if you don’t even talk to me because chances are you don’t even know me. I’m actually asking you to give me reasons to stay because I can’t find anymore on my own and I’m asking for help. So Goodbye, unless you can convince me otherwise. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:10 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Stokenut Group: Guest Posts: 2062 Member No.: 805 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 112 | This is more of a rant than a leaving topic, it's obvious from your wording you're not going anywhere. -------------------- Over 6 years of history and friendship, deleted over a difference in an opinion. --- Challenge any creationist to a debate. They'll run away and aggressively accuse you of "attacking" them and their "beliefs". I'm sorry, please, keep teaching our kids that they'll burn in hell if they don't believe. Mutilate their genitals against their will while you're at it. Keep influencing politics and holding back vital scientific research. I'll just keep my mouth shut to "respect" your "beliefs". | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:11 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Robertw56 Group: Guest Posts: 1908 Member No.: 15 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 118 | I'd love to know who read all that, anyways good luck man  --------------------    | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:11 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Geofff Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1238 Member No.: 608 Joined: May 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 96 | I can't stand the fact that 75% of WG do not come to raids. Bye. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:12 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls Group: Banned Posts: 2956 Member No.: 422 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 130 | Rarely you see a leaving post like this. It's a pleasant change. People leave over things, and never tell us what they are in detail. You've done that, and let alone just telling us, you've suggested how to deal with it. I don't believe a leaving post is the best way to attract our attention. Yes, I think that is what it is, but as far as I'm concerned it's a welcome attaction of attention, as this post will be very useful for Council work. I have not once seen any of these points raised in a security forum, suggestions forum, or even in PM to myself. Had you done one of those, they'd have been addressed almost instantly. I already from reading your post, have had ideas of 'Status updates in security forums', 'More input from members', 'more schemes and initiatives over the forums to get people chatting' etc. Your posts often do spark these sort of thoughts, Colonel, and it would be a shame to see you go. Obviously it's your choice as to whether you go or not. As I mentioned, I don't believe this is a leaving post, more of a way to attract our attention to a very very good suggestion (leaving isn't needed to attract attention to this, but ok..). I have a feeling by pointing this out, it's possibly you may feel a need to 'proove me wrong' and leave or something. I hope the maturity I know you have stops you from doing this. I'm posative everything you've said in this post will come in serious use. Heck, if this wasn't a leaving topic, i'd likely move it into a high-level security forum for discussion, but meh  Good luck with whatever you choose. ~Mugger84 -------------------- Mugger84 Member Of WG Since 4th April 2008. WG Raid Leader Since 20th June 2008. WG Council Since 20th November 2008. Banned from WG Since 6th March 2009. DF IG Since 6th March 2009. DF FA Since 15th March 2009. Ex-Member Of WG Since 26th March 2009. Member of DF Since 6th April 2009. Clan Friend of WG Since 4th June 2009. --- ||Ex-WG Warlord || Current Member of DF || Ex-Rampage Leader ||  | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:29 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 |
I did. Though I agree with your points except about promotions. I'm not too good with posting but I'll do my best to convince you. Despite all the BS in WG, not being in WG will feel like a piece of you is missing. I'm not sure how to convince you to stay other than to say that I'll miss harassing you when I see you at wars and on IRC (our timezones don't match well, not sure which one Africa is, if you're still there). I would like a list of your friends in WG so that I may spam them till they make you stay, I figure that'll work better than trying to make a speech. Mugger, I've posted in Level 1 about a new fansite and I got 3 replies, I've seen suggestions without any comments by the Council also. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:33 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls Group: Banned Posts: 2956 Member No.: 422 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 130 |
http://www.worldplayonline.com/clans.php?o...ASC&rowstart=25 We signed up to it  It was assumed you'd notice that we'd listened to your suggestion and gone along with it, as you ought to have been looking there anyway if you were interested in it o.O~Mugger84 -------------------- Mugger84 Member Of WG Since 4th April 2008. WG Raid Leader Since 20th June 2008. WG Council Since 20th November 2008. Banned from WG Since 6th March 2009. DF IG Since 6th March 2009. DF FA Since 15th March 2009. Ex-Member Of WG Since 26th March 2009. Member of DF Since 6th April 2009. Clan Friend of WG Since 4th June 2009. --- ||Ex-WG Warlord || Current Member of DF || Ex-Rampage Leader || | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:46 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Billy|Gilli Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1545 Member No.: 1451 Joined: November 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 91 | I just skimmed most of that, but i do see your points. This should all have gone into a suggestions post, this looks like you wanted to use this to get the atention of the clan and get your point across. Hope you stay still, of course nobody can make you, but you are very much a valued member imo. Gl with whatever you decide to do if u do leave  --------------------    | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:52 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | Its rare that someone shows enough deovtion to put so much thought into expressing their troubles with the clan. Every person who has some form of leadership in the clan should read, value, and act upon whatever has been said. I have read some, but don't have enough time to go into depth with it. It looks extremely valid though, and should provoke real change if it falls on the right ears. I won't say goodbye, because I hope that it is acted upon, and you have enough reason to stay (as you clearly wish to do). I wish all the best. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 09:53 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Mickey Group: Emeritus Posts: 5305 Member No.: 48 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 282 | I read it all. I actually agree with most of it. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 10:08 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Dalejamesw Group: Banned Posts: -1280 Member No.: 14 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 222 | You have it easy in WG -------------------- | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 10:11 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Jenny Group: Emeritus Posts: 1967 Member No.: 19 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 56 | First of all Mugger his name is David. He is from the Phillipines. David, You and I discussed this other day and I feel like I may have been responsible a little for how you feel. We have known each other for years, you went away and I was so happy when you came back to WG. You are the type of member it is a joy to be around, you are always cheerful, helpful, and loyal. I read every word and for the most part completely agree with you. We have become a "leader" based clan and most of the BS on the forums is suck-up. I find myself giving the same kinds of answers because I simply have become numb to getting to know a lot of people better. I don't particularly enjoy going on irc because of the spam and its uselessness. We don't actually communicate with others. It is kinda pointless. I would say I would leave but then I think why? The things I do on RS I can do without a clan. I stay for one reason. I joined this clan so long ago, my roots such as they are, are here. We have watched this place through so many changes, while I have given up hope of ever making a difference again, I would miss it dearly if I were to leave. Its like holding onto a dear Teddy bear even though you have all grown up. I do not want to see you go, but I honestly don't things will change much if you stay. People don't care, not like they used to. I do love you dearly as one of my oldest friends and I hope we always will be friends. Do what your heart tells you to do, just remember some of us still care. Jen --------------------   | ||||
Posted: December 29, 2008 11:29 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls Group: Banned Posts: 2956 Member No.: 422 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 130 |
What did I do o.O -------------------- Mugger84 Member Of WG Since 4th April 2008. WG Raid Leader Since 20th June 2008. WG Council Since 20th November 2008. Banned from WG Since 6th March 2009. DF IG Since 6th March 2009. DF FA Since 15th March 2009. Ex-Member Of WG Since 26th March 2009. Member of DF Since 6th April 2009. Clan Friend of WG Since 4th June 2009. --- ||Ex-WG Warlord || Current Member of DF || Ex-Rampage Leader || | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 03:56 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | If I don't get a good enough reason, yes I will leave Stoke. No, this is not me trying to get attention. I'm obviously not an attention seeker seeing as how I rarely post unless it's something serious (for me or the clan) or an old WG member dropping by to say hello in the Guest forums. Mugger, the reason I don't bring these things to attention anymore is because it's as if nothing ever comes from suggestions. I've made numerous suggestions and I don't even get a simple "Hey, that's good thinking there. I'll get the rest of the Council to look at that." So how do I even know you're looking or reading it? There is a good chance that you are reading it, but I don't know for sure, and I'm not going to waste my time trying desperately to help this clan when I don't even know if you'll look at or consider my suggestion. It's like talking to someone that doesn't look like they're paying close attention to you. After a while you don't know if they're listening or just standing there and you just stop talking. Mugger, I also actually feel a little insulted that you think this is just me trying to get attention. When have you EVER known me to do that? When have I started some random topic with no purpose? Made some post out of nowhere that was seemingly unrelated to anything going on? I can't think of a single time. That's your first assumption, well that tells me a little more about you. I said that members don't care anymore. See my point? "Oh he says he's leaving, but this is actually just him trying to get our attention." No. I will leave. I just wanted to let you know why. If this did bring some things to your attention, then great, work on it - if it ever gets that far up the chain. Jenny, don't feel responsible. I've felt this way for a long time. I'd thought about writing up suggestions, but never knew if they'd even be looked at. I also feel the same way, I've been here so long it will be hard to leave, but I also want to leave and I want to stay, I just don't know if I can handle it. I want to make a difference, but have no idea if I ever could make a difference again. Just to share some things, here are some suggestions I and others have written up. Take note on the posts in these topics and also the number of Council that posted on them to let people know that they were being looked at: - http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...?showtopic=1991 (Neither Glenn nor Mugger were Council at this time) - http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...?showtopic=2923 - http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...?showtopic=4718 - http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...?showtopic=4352 - http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...?showtopic=3074 - http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...?showtopic=7434 Now you might think "Hey we DO those things already!" and that isn't the point. The point is where is the simple "Hey we're looking at this, thanks." Just let us know you are paying attention and don't force us to rely on "Well, chances are they'll read this, so I'll post, but I have no idea if it'll do any good..." I mean, after a while anyone who's thinking like that will just stop suggesting things because it's as if they're wasting their time, and that is how I feel. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 04:57 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls Group: Banned Posts: 2956 Member No.: 422 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 130 | From what I can see, this whole issue seems to be over the fact that WG Council haven't posted a one-liner 'Hey, we're looking at this.' Well I'm sorry but I must say, you can see that obviously 90% of these topics must have been discussed and implimented since the suggestion is posted, so surely it's possible to have a little faith that the current council aren't all blind to suggestions, rants and other comments? We shouldn't really have to feel the need to post 'I've read this', you should count on our activity that we would have read this. We are supposed to be some of the most active people in the clan. Of course we've read suggestions. From now on i'll make a note to post 'I've read this' when I read a topic in the suggestions forum, for fear of causing somebody to leave :S As i've said, I do believe we need to be involving senior members more, and so will be discussing ways in which we can get our current projects moved down a few security forums for a little while for input. As for your supposed 'offence taken' standpoint, I'm sorry but I do say things how I see them. Perhaps that's why I'm likely one of the more unpopular of the council, I don't beat about the bush. I stand by what I said, and do feel that had I not said it, the outcome would have remained the same, however as I have said it, you may now feel the need to prove me wrong and actually leave, which I did hope your reknown maturity would avoid. Just also to point out, you said that myself and glenn were not appointed as council for the first of those suggestions, well in fact, apart from the last suggestion, not one of the current council was in 'office'. In fact, Glenn and I weren't appointed council until days after the very last topic. You have voted for your council, very recently in fact. Please have the trust in us to know that we do not ignore feedback. The Suggestions forum is used a lot for us, and although admittedly we rarely post our (now seemingly required) 'one liners', we do pay attention. It's a shame to see that your opinion of me has changed for speaking my mind. I had hoped that you always felt I was open in my feelings, and relatively observant. ~Mugger84 -------------------- Mugger84 Member Of WG Since 4th April 2008. WG Raid Leader Since 20th June 2008. WG Council Since 20th November 2008. Banned from WG Since 6th March 2009. DF IG Since 6th March 2009. DF FA Since 15th March 2009. Ex-Member Of WG Since 26th March 2009. Member of DF Since 6th April 2009. Clan Friend of WG Since 4th June 2009. --- ||Ex-WG Warlord || Current Member of DF || Ex-Rampage Leader || | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 08:29 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 |
You actually think I'd leave just to prove you wrong? You're important and all, but not that important. Seriously, that made me laugh. I'd leave regardless of what you said. You could have agreed with me wholeheartedly and I'd still leave if I wasn't given a reason to stay. Now, if you feel like looking at what I said in basically the most simple way possible, then by all means go ahead. If however you actually want to solve this, then look past that. First off, you cross it off as something meaningless. Have you ever tried to train a dog? He won't learn to do anything unless you reinforce him. That's what I'm saying, a little reinforcement and I guarantee you'll see improvement. It's more than just a little line, it's reassurance that the Council is actually paying attention to us. You should go out of your way to just let people know they're not being ignored, but judging by your little smiley face, I doubt you'll change, seeing as how you feel it's so insignificant. I suppose you missed the part where I said that the point wasn't that the suggestions were implemented or not, it's that nobody even cared to let the poster know that the idea was even being considered, in which case they could have helped develop it. It's more than just letting us know, it's about involving us also. You can say that you've read them all you want but that doesn't mean you have (not to say you don't but the point is valid). I can say I've looked at every single thread on these forums, but that doesn't make it true. If I post on every single one, it does. Personally, I'm glad you say what's on your mind. Shows you're not a pussy Council Member, so have at it. I'm only doing the same. The point about none of the current Council being in office is totally off topic. The reason I singled you out was because you're Council now, and it seems like on that thread, Council had made an appearance when they hadn't. I was trying to convey my point of "The Council don't even let us know they're reading our suggestions." Don't say I don't trust the Council, because I do. I trust you all very much. But trust can only make me feel like you're doing the right thing. I personally do believe that you read every suggestion and take it into account, but I can't be sure. If I'd gotten more feedback on my ideas, I'd have been more than happy to help develop them, because I had more ideas as time went on. But I didn't get any feedback. So they just vanished. That's the point. If anything, my thing with the Council comes down to the fact you guys rarely include us. Like I said, it's very very "top down" now. You take what you want and implement it and don't let anyone help you. My opinion hasn't changed and I don't recall saying it has. Regardless of whether or not you believe me, I still respect and trust you. I know you're open about many things and speak what's on your mind, and I respect that. Still kind of laughing at this little bit:
Just so you know, I do not have a personal vendetta against you, so I could care less if I proved you wrong. It really doesn't mean that much to me if you're "right" or "wrong". You "want" me to stay apparently, well give me a damn good reason. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 09:42 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Billy|Gilli Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1545 Member No.: 1451 Joined: November 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 91 | Please dont leave, im sure we can come to some sort of mutual arrangement :$? -------------------- | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 05:32 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior Group: Ex-Member Posts: 240 Member No.: 527 Joined: April 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 5 | Lol, David is leaving for the same reasons I left. More than one person are noticing this problem. At this point, it's not really even considered a problem anymore, it's more than that, and it's not being treated like anything. I find myself visiting the forums more than most people who are actually in the clan, and I'm still much a fan of WG, regardless of me starting a clan or not. I was here for more than a year and I've sadly noticed that unless you kiss major ass, nothing happens. Some of the greatest people in the clan are still guardians or higher guardians. A lot of people deserve to move up, and that just isn't happening. You know what it feels like to be trying so hard, but never accomplish your goal? Some people want to be higher ranked because they think they can actually help. You're not providing them with the resources necessary to do it, and it's hurting everyone. I found myself straying away from the irc as well when it got bad. Honestly, I think it's party caused by the Lobby, but, who am I to say? You need to make the forums the most active of any means of communication. Not everyone can be in the irc for hours on end, and they miss conversations that should be on the forums some way or another. To be quite honest, I haven't see a reason for David to stay being posted yet, which, kinda proves the points of him and I. If the forums were more active, people might actually see this and read it. After seeing the length, they probably won't read it, because really they don't care... BUT, at least they can see it. -------------------- Kingdom of Edgeville  | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 09:04 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 | Well I haven't been here whole long time. Reading Colonel's post I see alot of valid points. I never see the leadership asking how to change the clan a lot but I always see people saying were in a slump. In my time here I havent seen such high quality constructive critism on the clan till now. On other hand being here so long I don't to see it changing any time soon. Even though Colonel's points are very solid. For me though coming to events few times a week and "hanging out" in irc is nice and I enjoy it. I don't think I know the clan any other way than how it is now. Maybe doing the things Colonel suggested could cause few more people to be interested in molding the clan into a more favorable shape. EDIT: Was thinking maybe the clan doesn't accomdate Colonel's ideas because he is in the minority here? If so Mugger do you think these issues he has brought up are worth noting? Or do you think because he is the only one speaking about them that they are less valid or not as important? I only ask because I haven't really seen these questions brought up before much. Thanks for reading my edit lol. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 09:34 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 | Here's how I feel about suggestions. Of all the 80+ members in WG, do you think every single one of them agrees with every aspect of how the clan runs? Of course not. We know that some members want this, some members want that, blah blah blah. But lets face it, if we implemented every single suggestions that appeared on the forums, the clan would have so much stuff going on we'd have no idea what to do. Not that any of your suggestions are bad, it's just the leadership only picks a suggestion when we are absolutely sure we need it. Maybe it could help, but at the same time require a huge amount of effort which might not show desired or expected results. You see, there's reasons why I personally don't post on suggestions. First, if I don't like the idea, would you rather me say "No thanks" or "Ok, we'll look into it" with intentions to do nothing. Like I said before, not that any of yours were bad, it's just getting one that is extremely necessary is rare. Oh, and we definitely do bring up a lot of member's points in level 4, but our feedback isn't always for the member's eyes. Also, sometimes people suggest things like "Post more" or "Go on teamspeak more" etc. Well, want do you want us to do? I'm not going to come to every member's house and turn on their teamspeak. All we can do is ask them to be active, not enforce them. On the issue of the community, I'd have to say we're not dead. Not even close. I'm all for personal expression. If someone wants to post, not post, talk in 1337 speak, talk well educated, include or exclude them self from a discussion, so be it. The clan is only as good as the members in it. When I'm in the irc, I think that every word that someone says is all in good fun, spam or not. Yes, sometimes people do it at the wrong times, but we usually take care of that. In reality though David, if we were to have all WG members in a room irl, would we really be that much more "mature"? We are who we are. Plus, I never really see you in there, although you have a legitimate excuse, it would still be nice to see what you're getting your observations off of. On the issue of applications on trial guardians, I feel the same way you do. It's a problem that we've been trying to work out, but people find ways around it. A lot of times people just refer their friends before they get to know other members, other times the "Please add me" happens, but it's fore the most part unavoidable. You know I want you to stay. You've been a great member of WG, and I can thank you for a whoooole bunch of things, including advice on getting council. Not everyone agres with everything, I know, but we can improve without completely changing it. I don't think WG is in a slump, not even close. Our general activity to events, irc, and forums have increased over the past months and I'm sure it will continue. I hope you change your mind, I'll miss you, really  --------------------   | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 09:41 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 | I actually think weegee is getting better and more active too actually. Just thinking of maybe a month or two ago and its fresh in my mind. I have a question though. Why limit discussions about weegee in the level 4 area? There are alot of members that aren't high enough rank. I don't see how it can hurt weegee any as well. I'm pretty curious to see these discussions but can't cause i'm just guardian here. Which i'm ok with you can promote me whenever you see fit. Anyway ya, please give an answer to that. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 09:43 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls Group: Banned Posts: 2956 Member No.: 422 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 130 | I might have missed it, but I don't think a slump has been mentioned :S If it has been, then I'm assuming it's from a person who has not been active on RS/WG for many months, because WG is currently at the best it has been since I joined in April, no doubt. And to veph: Yes we take constructive criticism in, and act on it. As Randy has pointed out, we discuss most suggestions, whether in PM or in a security forum, but more often then not the feedback is for those who were discussing it. I wish you the best of luck in your future RS Career, David. ~Mugger84 -------------------- Mugger84 Member Of WG Since 4th April 2008. WG Raid Leader Since 20th June 2008. WG Council Since 20th November 2008. Banned from WG Since 6th March 2009. DF IG Since 6th March 2009. DF FA Since 15th March 2009. Ex-Member Of WG Since 26th March 2009. Member of DF Since 6th April 2009. Clan Friend of WG Since 4th June 2009. --- ||Ex-WG Warlord || Current Member of DF || Ex-Rampage Leader || | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 09:46 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 | Probably thinking about wars when I think about slumps. Ya your right though. I like all the events and we get alot of activity there. I was confusing the issue a little. Still be interesting to see those discussions though. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 10:14 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | With a post that long there's no way you're leaving. you put way too much thought into this, meaning you still enjoy it here and you know it. Trust me dude, it's impossible to leave this place for good once you've really made a connection. It's just too good here, and you're a good guy. I'm sure you've realized this by now so... WELCOME BACK SIR. btw, tl:dr. -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=-  W I N N I N G | ||||
Posted: December 30, 2008 11:24 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Havochaha Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2257 Member No.: 106 Joined: January 5, 2008 Total Events Attended: 113 | There a lot of long posts i should take a day off from school and just read all this. Colonol ill just be short writing i like you please dont leave thats all. -------------------- Havochaha Perm Banned Oct 1st 2009 Havochaha Unbanned February 13th 2011  http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/Omar+Dandan How to Make 10m an Hour | ||||
Maybe this time it's for good., Unless you can provide me with a reason.Pages: (2) [1] 2