Let's have a discussion about our privacy, because this is a serious topic.
Over the last couple of days, we've learned about Verizon, Microsoft, Google, Yahoo! Facebook, PalTalk, Youtube, Skype, AOL, Apple, and Verizon sharing vast amount of data with the government in ways that should be driving our country nuts right now. All of this started under George Bush under the Patriot Act in an attempt to secure our nation. It has since been expanded under Barack Obama in his "most transparent presidency".
Here are the slides that were leaked originally about PRISM which have been confirmed by the United States government to be true: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/)
According to the document, the NSA can tap into our Email, video chat, voice chat, videos, photos, stored data, as well as other social networking details. These important tech companies have been sharing your data whether you're an American or not.
Since the problem stems from digital sources, I urge you to protect yourself by being a more responsible internet user. Some of these things are harder than others, and I understand that many are too lazy/complacent to do anything about it. Shame on you. Here's some ways to start:
Ditch your Facebook/Instagram account. Twitter seems relatively safe...for now.
Host your own mail server or rent out a cheap box. Encrypt your emails.
Don't get NEAR Skype. Skype is infamous for being completely loose with user data.
Don't have Verizon phone/internet/TV.
Using Yahoo!, Google, or Bing? Sorry. Use Duckduckgo instead.
Not using Youtube is a rather hard thing to request, but thankfully unless you're uploading your own videos or you're not connected via your GMail account, you are a little better off. There's not much of an alternative here.
Don't use Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, or Safari. Firefox with some security addons or some obscure Linux browser protects your data much better.
Encrypt your hard drives.
Don't use Windows/iOS operating systems. Switch to Linux/BSD (steer away from Ubuntu though), where people aren't actively grasping for your information.
I'm sure this sounds irrational to...all of you. It's sad that there's really no rational way to avoid all of this. I know you have people begging you to write/call your local politicians all the time, but I beg you to do it this one time.
To non-US residents: Sorry our government sucks and that they spy on you too.
Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us/nsa-verizon-calls.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=2& (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us/nsa-verizon-calls.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=2&)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/obama-administration-nsa-verizon-records (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/obama-administration-nsa-verizon-records)
http://pastebin.com/MPpT7xaf (http://pastebin.com/MPpT7xaf)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/07/us-apple-nsa-idUSBRE9551EU20130607 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/07/us-apple-nsa-idUSBRE9551EU20130607)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order)
While I understand why there has been a large amount of drama recently regarding the invasion of privacy by NSA and all the above major corporations who are supporting this 'PRISM' initiative - I can't help but think all of the above suggestions need to come with a free tinfoil hat.
Yes the US government could do all of the above technically, but what the hell are you doing that they would want to do any of the above?
If the NSA want's to know what porn I watch, what games I play, what websites I commonly visit and what I do with my spare time they are entirely welcome to it - I honestly couldn't care what information they hold about me because at the end of the day I am sure there are many people out there who that they would be much more interested in than me - that's not about to change.
I'm not going to live in a pile of cotton wool and tinfoil, afraid to browse the internet, unable to keep in touch with my friends and family, resorting to using an incapable operating system just because there is the potential for the NSA to find out a bit of information about me.
I get the concern around this, but ultimately, I don't do anything worth spying on.....
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/182532_4446221765658_1836751424_n.jpg)
Well I read about how recently the US big-time judge person ordered Google to allow them to user information, but I didn't know it was that serious, that widespread. I was concerned after I found out reading this, but then I read JC's reply...
Yeah lol, there's nothing bad that they could be spying on. If my information was too available to the PUBLIC, then that would be something to be really concerned about.
It's like that joke, 'if robbers came to my house looking for money I'd laugh and search with them'. I have nothing to hide lol.
On another topic of spying...I hear the Chinese spy on US companies all the time lol, and a US security firm did this whole research thing and traced it back to a government/army office. So brings me to my point now...where exactly is the line for spying? What defines as spying? And then there's the whole thing about what you put on social networks..."stalking" people. If you make it available to the public, then if someone stumbles on your profile...and see's your PUBLIC information, is that stalking? So say if we didn't switch to Linux, Firefox, and etc. in this case, would it be justified as spying? I don't think so. I think that things are changing, and more and more information is becoming available to people. It's like the narrative of the information age, but I sure don't think everything should be available to the public. Maybe this is where the line is drawn, this is the brink.
Quote from: JC on June 09, 2013, 06:23:12 AM
While I understand why there has been a large amount of drama recently regarding the invasion of privacy by NSA and all the above major corporations who are supporting this 'PRISM' initiative - I can't help but think all of the above suggestions need to come with a free tinfoil hat.
Yes the US government could do all of the above technically, but what the hell are you doing that they would want to do any of the above?
If the NSA want's to know what porn I watch, what games I play, what websites I commonly visit and what I do with my spare time they are entirely welcome to it - I honestly couldn't care what information they hold about me because at the end of the day I am sure there are many people out there who that they would be much more interested in than me - that's not about to change.
I'm not going to live in a pile of cotton wool and tinfoil, afraid to browse the internet, unable to keep in touch with my friends and family, resorting to using an incapable operating system just because there is the potential for the NSA to find out a bit of information about me.
I get the concern around this, but ultimately, I don't do anything worth spying on.....
First they came for the hackers.
But I never did anything illegal with my computer,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the pornographers.
But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,
so I didn't speak up
Then they came for the anonymous remailers.
But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the encryption users.
But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for me.
And by that time there was no one left to speak up.
I stopped using Chrome due to the privacy leakage, so I switched to SR Ironware awhile ago (Same thing as Chrome but no logs stored etc.)
I am not going to switch my OS because not many games run on Linux.
I don't really have anything on my Skype except friends so I'm okay with that.
If they are going to monitor what I do on the computer, I will open gay pornography and goatsie for them to monitor.
You are never safe on the internet, regardless of this new policy the US Government is bringing up. Your privacy is always leaked, don't make a big fuss out of this.
US GOVERNMENT CAN'T STOP ME
Like 90% of everything I do on my computer is RS-related.
As long as Obama doesn't drop my bank I don't really care if they watch lol
Oh sh*t. They gonna hack my RS gps!
Quote from: Josheh on June 09, 2013, 07:59:38 AM
Quote from: JC on June 09, 2013, 06:23:12 AM
While I understand why there has been a large amount of drama recently regarding the invasion of privacy by NSA and all the above major corporations who are supporting this 'PRISM' initiative - I can't help but think all of the above suggestions need to come with a free tinfoil hat.
Yes the US government could do all of the above technically, but what the hell are you doing that they would want to do any of the above?
If the NSA want's to know what porn I watch, what games I play, what websites I commonly visit and what I do with my spare time they are entirely welcome to it - I honestly couldn't care what information they hold about me because at the end of the day I am sure there are many people out there who that they would be much more interested in than me - that's not about to change.
I'm not going to live in a pile of cotton wool and tinfoil, afraid to browse the internet, unable to keep in touch with my friends and family, resorting to using an incapable operating system just because there is the potential for the NSA to find out a bit of information about me.
I get the concern around this, but ultimately, I don't do anything worth spying on.....
First they came for the hackers.
But I never did anything illegal with my computer,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the pornographers.
But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,
so I didn't speak up
Then they came for the anonymous remailers.
But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the encryption users.
But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for me.
And by that time there was no one left to speak up.
To me our president sorta mirrors Hitler.
Honestly anyone that trusts the government should look into the free housing offered by FEMA.
I hear it has a toasty big house heated with Gas and lots of caskets for accommodation of the dead.
They are already widen all the bridges so the tanks can come over them now.
I won't go into all that I think is going down but Brazil is looking good.
Well, I am guessing everyone knew the government was spying on them in some way or another. TO the extent that they were spying is unknown, even after having access to all sorts of things like this.
Unless you were a wanted criminal, I doubt all this useless junk will be individually monitored anyway.
Obama Analyzes Verizon Customers' Text Messages (Jimmy Fallon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJLrjIvjrG0#ws)
I don't do anything wrong, and don't really care about my privacy. Why haven't they caught on to pirating yet then?
I've got nothing to hide.
Unless the CIA is watching me play RS. That would be embarrassing =(
really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends
(http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Himmler-On-Gun-Control-7-20-20121.jpg)
If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin
"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938
"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro
the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.
Lol, i dont think weve had privacy since the early 2000s, to be honest. I know a lot of people that are aware of shit like that... But people dont really take action out here they just kind of watch it.... I mean come on, this guy gets a ridiculous amount of signatures to nullify the first ammendment , even though hes just trolling them
Americans sign petition to repeal the First Amendment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tznR4wPeS4M#)
Were pretty much boned. Google Obama's FEMA camps.
I've got plenty of opinions on these subjects, but it's just too exhausting to get into right now...
Quote from: This Babylon on June 09, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends
(http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Himmler-On-Gun-Control-7-20-20121.jpg)
If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin
"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938
"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro
the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.
The police and military are also
"ordinary citizens"?
actually, we are. we have just taken certain oaths to defend the people.
Quote from: This Babylon on June 09, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends
(http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Himmler-On-Gun-Control-7-20-20121.jpg)
If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin
"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938
"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro
the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.
No guns over in Britland bro, and we seem to be more "free" than you.
Anyway, if the government seeing that I like to watch porn parodies, and runescape videos means that in 2 years they catch a domestic terrorist before they commit an attack like 9/11, or worse. Then I'm absolutely fine with that.
If the government is interested in what I post on facebook, but in 4 years they manage to catch 20 paedophiles before they rape 100 twelve year olds from other facebook information. Then I'm absolutely fine with that.
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 12:32:37 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 09, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends
(http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Himmler-On-Gun-Control-7-20-20121.jpg)
If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin
"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938
"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro
the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.
No guns over in Britland bro, and we seem to be more "free" than you.
Anyway, if the government seeing that I like to watch porn parodies, and runescape videos means that in 2 years they catch a domestic terrorist before they commit an attack like 9/11, or worse. Then I'm absolutely fine with that.
If the government is interested in what I post on facebook, but in 4 years they manage to catch 20 paedophiles before they rape 100 twelve year olds from other facebook information. Then I'm absolutely fine with that.
http://gawker.com/terror-in-london-soldier-hacked-apart-by-machete-wield-509321352 (http://gawker.com/terror-in-london-soldier-hacked-apart-by-machete-wield-509321352)
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 12:44:00 AM
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 12:32:37 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 09, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends
(http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Himmler-On-Gun-Control-7-20-20121.jpg)
If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin
"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938
"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro
the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.
No guns over in Britland bro, and we seem to be more "free" than you.
Anyway, if the government seeing that I like to watch porn parodies, and runescape videos means that in 2 years they catch a domestic terrorist before they commit an attack like 9/11, or worse. Then I'm absolutely fine with that.
If the government is interested in what I post on facebook, but in 4 years they manage to catch 20 paedophiles before they rape 100 twelve year olds from other facebook information. Then I'm absolutely fine with that.
http://gawker.com/terror-in-london-soldier-hacked-apart-by-machete-wield-509321352 (http://gawker.com/terror-in-london-soldier-hacked-apart-by-machete-wield-509321352)
And your point is?
I'm glad to see other people are aware of what is going on.
I haven't figured out exactly what to do.
Educating yourselves of what is going on in the world and your own countries seems like a good thing.
To Owen:
I'm concerned that those things are bi-products of a greater agenda.
Those things happening are great.
Why aren't they catching drug dealers with all this available to them?
There are cameras everywhere in usa now.
You really can't go out of your home and not be watched.
It's not just in town, it's anywhere you can see sky.
What I'm about to write below concerns mostly my fellow Americans, so just a heads up if you're not from the US or anything you might not be interested. If not, you can scroll to the last few paragraphs, past the "~" ;).
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 09, 2013, 03:03:50 PM
Honestly anyone that trusts the government should look into the free housing offered by FEMA.
What does trusting our government have anything with FEMA?
@Babylon That was a rhetorical question. The president, police, military, your fireman, mailman are also citizens of the US like we are, as you know. I was responding to your pic and quotes. Now...not a rhetorical question - if the military have firearms, that means the citizens do too? As in...you, as a member of our military, would you suppress the people in the event of a Nazi Germany (hypothetically)?
Comparing our president to Hitler, posting quotes from other political leaders in history...it's apples and oranges. Hitler wasn't even black.
The quotes. It's talking history...and I'm sorry to say but saying our president is a Hitler is a pretty uneducated remark. And I don't mean to say YOU'RE uneducated, I mean that if you said that keeping in mind of how our government works, something like a Nazi Germany would be virtually impossible to take off. Our govt. is structured in a way that nobody in the govt. branches are ever all-too-powerful (checks and balances, from the constitution). The legislators, senators, and president are joes like us, make a salary just like us, put on underwear in the morning just like us.
While we poke fun at our political leaders and Congress (10% approval rating of it as in fact I just found out), we're (WE the people) are responsible for it. That's OUR Congress not the "government's". My point is don't treat the government like they're a separate entity, that's the beauty of our government...whether you hate their decisions or not, we're the ones who make up the members of the houses that pass the bills and the decisions, WE have responsibility for choosing a president. So when shit happens like FEMA or whatever, a bad bill passes, that reflects back at us too.
~
Also...because people probably missed my first reply above, to reiterate, if we want to go anywhere with this instead of making it seem like our government is the enemy, do you think we're evolving as far as ethics in this "information age"? What information do not want to people to see, and what information do you think should be available to people? Literally - list some things out.
Think about the information you make available to the public and/or government (because if your government can see "bad" information, then it probably wasn't that hard to obtain in the first place). For example, bonehead friends that post pics of them smoking weed online. What information do you not want to share with the government? And if you aren't fine with sharing it...why? Are you doing something illegal?
In the governments point of view: Why are you concerned? Got something to hide? ...So you do? Well wow we're only more interested. :>
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 10, 2013, 12:47:59 AM
There are cameras everywhere in usa now.
There are cameras everywhere in London.
Is that bad? :P
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 10, 2013, 12:47:59 AM
To Owen:
I'm concerned that those things are bi-products of a greater agenda.
Those things happening are great.
Why aren't they catching drug dealers with all this available to them?
There are cameras everywhere in usa now.
You really can't go out of your home and not be watched.
It's not just in town, it's anywhere you can see sky.
"There were 80% more arrests for drug possession or use in 2010 than in 1990. Even though the rate declined between 2006 and 2010, the arrest rate for drug possession or use in 2010 was still 46% above its 1990 level and was at levels similar to those seen between 1997 and 2002."
Source: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4515 (http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4515)
They probably ARE using the information to catch drug and violence offenders, that's the whole point in them keeping/collecting the information. I don't think they're collecting the information to have a giggle at what some people browse on the internet.
Also, regarding some of this information, as far as I'm aware the only information they get is time/location of texts/calls being placed. They don't get the actual information sent between them without a warrant.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"
the point is, is basically what Rachel said, its almost like they are more concerned with the average citizen than a extremest muslim. They seem to want to take away the ability for the average man to defend himself in our nation currently, which is not the point. The point of our second amendment is so that we can defend ourselves against any foreign nation/ group bent on doing ill will to them, and that's exactly what is happening right now. I guarantee that incident with the machete would not happen in America, its like the Admiral Yamamoto once said when asked why he did not invade during pearl harbor, considering he was so close to doing so already "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". Generally speaking, most people are not concerned with global affairs, so they look through a small lens. They only see gangbangers and colombine, ignoring the principles that our nation was founded on, and the reasoning behind giving citizens the right to own a firearm. The fact remains that they gave the right to the people so they could be wolves, not sheep. Disarming us takes that away.
also, about the drug dealer thing, that is great that they are making progress, but they really should focus manpower in stopping the druglords, and destroying the infrastructure used to transport drugs into the country.
The problem is they have a method for keeping scores on the American people.
If your score is high maybe because you visited a place that tells you how to prepare for a nature disaster, how to make homemade medicine or some other thing they deem dangerous. It puts you at higher risk to be discriminated against. Look at the recent IRS scandals that are going on now in usa. The government should not be discriminating on its own citizens.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"
this is the problem.
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:01:02 AM
the point is, is basically what Rachel said, its almost like they are more concerned with the average citizen than a extremest muslim. They seem to want to take away the ability for the average man to defend himself in our nation currently, which is not the point. The point of our second amendment is so that we can defend ourselves against any foreign nation/ group bent on doing ill will to them, and that's exactly what is happening right now. I guarantee that incident with the machete would not happen in America, its like the Admiral Yamamoto once said when asked why he did not invade during pearl harbor, considering he was so close to doing so already "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". Generally speaking, most people are not concerned with global affairs, so they look through a small lens. They only see gangbangers and colombine, ignoring the principles that our nation was founded on, and the reasoning behind giving citizens the right to own a firearm. The fact remains that they gave the right to the people so they could be wolves, not sheep. Disarming us takes that away.
also, about the drug dealer thing, that is great that they are making progress, but they really should focus manpower in stopping the druglords, and destroying the infrastructure used to transport drugs into the country.
Sure is peaceful over here:
World map of the Global Peace Index 2011. Countries appearing more green are ranked as more peaceful, countries appearing more red are ranked as less peaceful.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Global_Peace_Index_2011.png/800px-Global_Peace_Index_2011.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index)
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 01:10:37 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:01:02 AM
the point is, is basically what Rachel said, its almost like they are more concerned with the average citizen than a extremest muslim. They seem to want to take away the ability for the average man to defend himself in our nation currently, which is not the point. The point of our second amendment is so that we can defend ourselves against any foreign nation/ group bent on doing ill will to them, and that's exactly what is happening right now. I guarantee that incident with the machete would not happen in America, its like the Admiral Yamamoto once said when asked why he did not invade during pearl harbor, considering he was so close to doing so already "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". Generally speaking, most people are not concerned with global affairs, so they look through a small lens. They only see gangbangers and colombine, ignoring the principles that our nation was founded on, and the reasoning behind giving citizens the right to own a firearm. The fact remains that they gave the right to the people so they could be wolves, not sheep. Disarming us takes that away.
also, about the drug dealer thing, that is great that they are making progress, but they really should focus manpower in stopping the druglords, and destroying the infrastructure used to transport drugs into the country.
Sure is peaceful over here:
World map of the Global Peace Index 2011. Countries appearing more green are ranked as more peaceful, countries appearing more red are ranked as less peaceful.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Global_Peace_Index_2011.png/800px-Global_Peace_Index_2011.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index)
showing two year old studies doesn't change the validity of the arguement.
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 10, 2013, 01:04:10 AM
The problem is they have a method for keeping scores on the American people.
If your score is high maybe because you visited a place that tells you how to prepare for a nature disaster, how to make homemade medicine or some other thing they deem dangerous. It puts you at higher risk to be discriminated against.
[citation needed]
QuoteThe government should not be discriminating on its own citizens.
Nah, they should be out discriminating against those muslims in afghanistan and iran, right?
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:11:47 AM
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 01:10:37 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:01:02 AM
the point is, is basically what Rachel said, its almost like they are more concerned with the average citizen than a extremest muslim. They seem to want to take away the ability for the average man to defend himself in our nation currently, which is not the point. The point of our second amendment is so that we can defend ourselves against any foreign nation/ group bent on doing ill will to them, and that's exactly what is happening right now. I guarantee that incident with the machete would not happen in America, its like the Admiral Yamamoto once said when asked why he did not invade during pearl harbor, considering he was so close to doing so already "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". Generally speaking, most people are not concerned with global affairs, so they look through a small lens. They only see gangbangers and colombine, ignoring the principles that our nation was founded on, and the reasoning behind giving citizens the right to own a firearm. The fact remains that they gave the right to the people so they could be wolves, not sheep. Disarming us takes that away.
also, about the drug dealer thing, that is great that they are making progress, but they really should focus manpower in stopping the druglords, and destroying the infrastructure used to transport drugs into the country.
Sure is peaceful over here:
World map of the Global Peace Index 2011. Countries appearing more green are ranked as more peaceful, countries appearing more red are ranked as less peaceful.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Global_Peace_Index_2011.png/800px-Global_Peace_Index_2011.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index)
showing two year old studies doesn't change the validity of the arguement.
Scroll down the wiki page where it has the 2012 scores, the 2013 one obviously hasn't been release yet.
UK ranked 29th. USA ranked 88th.
Remember Owen that although the USA is one country, we have 50 states.
Most of them are larger than UK.
If they had put the map to states and not countries, you would see we have a lot of states that are very peace loving.
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 01:13:26 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:11:47 AM
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 01:10:37 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:01:02 AM
the point is, is basically what Rachel said, its almost like they are more concerned with the average citizen than a extremest muslim. They seem to want to take away the ability for the average man to defend himself in our nation currently, which is not the point. The point of our second amendment is so that we can defend ourselves against any foreign nation/ group bent on doing ill will to them, and that's exactly what is happening right now. I guarantee that incident with the machete would not happen in America, its like the Admiral Yamamoto once said when asked why he did not invade during pearl harbor, considering he was so close to doing so already "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". Generally speaking, most people are not concerned with global affairs, so they look through a small lens. They only see gangbangers and colombine, ignoring the principles that our nation was founded on, and the reasoning behind giving citizens the right to own a firearm. The fact remains that they gave the right to the people so they could be wolves, not sheep. Disarming us takes that away.
also, about the drug dealer thing, that is great that they are making progress, but they really should focus manpower in stopping the druglords, and destroying the infrastructure used to transport drugs into the country.
Sure is peaceful over here:
World map of the Global Peace Index 2011. Countries appearing more green are ranked as more peaceful, countries appearing more red are ranked as less peaceful.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Global_Peace_Index_2011.png/800px-Global_Peace_Index_2011.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index)
showing two year old studies doesn't change the validity of the arguement.
Scroll down the wiki page where it has the 2012 scores, the 2013 one obviously hasn't been release yet.
UK ranked 29th. USA ranked 88th.
exactly the problem.
Does it not concern you that a muslim extremist hacked a man to death on your countries soil? What if that would have been a relative, or a friend.
Anyways, we are off topic. Back to the recent discoveries about the us gov.
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:17:12 AM
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 01:13:26 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:11:47 AM
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 01:10:37 AM
Quote from: This Babylon on June 10, 2013, 01:01:02 AM
the point is, is basically what Rachel said, its almost like they are more concerned with the average citizen than a extremest muslim. They seem to want to take away the ability for the average man to defend himself in our nation currently, which is not the point. The point of our second amendment is so that we can defend ourselves against any foreign nation/ group bent on doing ill will to them, and that's exactly what is happening right now. I guarantee that incident with the machete would not happen in America, its like the Admiral Yamamoto once said when asked why he did not invade during pearl harbor, considering he was so close to doing so already "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". Generally speaking, most people are not concerned with global affairs, so they look through a small lens. They only see gangbangers and colombine, ignoring the principles that our nation was founded on, and the reasoning behind giving citizens the right to own a firearm. The fact remains that they gave the right to the people so they could be wolves, not sheep. Disarming us takes that away.
also, about the drug dealer thing, that is great that they are making progress, but they really should focus manpower in stopping the druglords, and destroying the infrastructure used to transport drugs into the country.
Sure is peaceful over here:
World map of the Global Peace Index 2011. Countries appearing more green are ranked as more peaceful, countries appearing more red are ranked as less peaceful.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Global_Peace_Index_2011.png/800px-Global_Peace_Index_2011.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_index)
showing two year old studies doesn't change the validity of the arguement.
Scroll down the wiki page where it has the 2012 scores, the 2013 one obviously hasn't been release yet.
UK ranked 29th. USA ranked 88th.
exactly the problem.
Does it not concern you that a muslim extremist hacked a man to death on your countries soil? What if that would have been a relative, or a friend.
Anyways, we are off topic. Back to the recent discoveries about the us gov.
Of course it concerns me, but saying that you wouldn't have crimes like that in the USA is downright ignorance.
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 10, 2013, 01:14:09 AM
Remember Owen that although the USA is one country, we have 50 states.
Most of them are larger than UK.
If they had put the map to states and not countries, you would see we have a lot of states that are very peace loving.
Look at Europe as a whole, check out all that green.
@Rachel The government has a "greater agenda"? Who'd you hear that from? Based on what evidence? Sounds more like paranoia.
@Babylon Of course he would say that. Look at Japan's size, then look at the US's size. Common sense? I agree with what you said that the average American doesn't understand why we have arms though.
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 10, 2013, 01:14:09 AM
Remember Owen that although the USA is one country, we have 50 states.
Most of them are larger than UK.
If they had put the map to states and not countries, you would see we have a lot of states that are very peace loving.
States are very peace loving based on what evidence, what data? Where? Who?
tl;dr
Let them spy I don't give a shit
Quote from: Owen on June 10, 2013, 01:12:03 AM
QuoteThe government should not be discriminating on its own citizens.
Nah, they should be out discriminating against those muslims in afghanistan and iran, right?
Owen, we are at war against muslim extremists, i think you need to be reminded that. Im not saying that its right, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few remember :)
(http://i.imgur.com/s3UBeC7.png) (http://swiftkit.net)
I'll post a TL;DR version of my opinion on all of this.
I don't really care what they look through in terms of my or anyone elses information. Conspiracy theories are generally stupid as fuck with little to no logic.
I do care about things like holding people without cause or people that have already been cleared (Guantanamo) and killing US citizens on foreign soil.
Most of the scandals occurring right now have nothing to do with the President. The only one that's really troubling is the prosecution of journalists as whistleblowers.
Now excuse me while I find Alex Jones and beat him to death with a crowbar.
"Here's The $2 Billion Facility Where The NSA Will Store And Analyze Your Communications"
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6#ixzz2Vt5GbZ16 (http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6#ixzz2Vt5GbZ16)
Quote from: Al on June 11, 2013, 07:42:29 AM
"Here's The $2 Billion Facility Where The NSA Will Store And Analyze Your Communications"
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6#ixzz2Vt5GbZ16 (http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6#ixzz2Vt5GbZ16)
inb4 anons hack it and delete everything
I love some of the ignorance in this thread, both american and non-american. So eager to give up your privacy and fight the muslims!
ITT: People who need to read 1984
Quote from: milfhunt3r on June 09, 2013, 10:37:26 PM
Lol, i dont think weve had privacy since the early 2000s, to be honest. I know a lot of people that are aware of shit like that... But people dont really take action out here they just kind of watch it.... I mean come on, this guy gets a ridiculous amount of signatures to nullify the first ammendment , even though hes just trolling them
Americans sign petition to repeal the First Amendment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tznR4wPeS4M#)
Were pretty much boned. Google Obama's FEMA camps.
That was the most cringe-worthy thing I've watched in a long time. I couldn't watch past a minute and a half. Even that video Lordy posted was more tolerable than that.
Quote from: Al on June 10, 2013, 12:50:34 AM
What I'm about to write below concerns mostly my fellow Americans, so just a heads up if you're not from the US or anything you might not be interested. If not, you can scroll to the last few paragraphs, past the "~" ;).
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 09, 2013, 03:03:50 PM
Honestly anyone that trusts the government should look into the free housing offered by FEMA.
What does trusting our government have anything with FEMA?
@Babylon That was a rhetorical question. The president, police, military, your fireman, mailman are also citizens of the US like we are, as you know. I was responding to your pic and quotes. Now...not a rhetorical question - if the military have firearms, that means the citizens do too? As in...you, as a member of our military, would you suppress the people in the event of a Nazi Germany (hypothetically)?
Comparing our president to Hitler, posting quotes from other political leaders in history...it's apples and oranges. Hitler wasn't even black.
The quotes. It's talking history...and I'm sorry to say but saying our president is a Hitler is a pretty uneducated remark. And I don't mean to say YOU'RE uneducated, I mean that if you said that keeping in mind of how our government works, something like a Nazi Germany would be virtually impossible to take off. Our govt. is structured in a way that nobody in the govt. branches are ever all-too-powerful (checks and balances, from the constitution). The legislators, senators, and president are joes like us, make a salary just like us, put on underwear in the morning just like us.
While we poke fun at our political leaders and Congress (10% approval rating of it as in fact I just found out), we're (WE the people) are responsible for it. That's OUR Congress not the "government's". My point is don't treat the government like they're a separate entity, that's the beauty of our government...whether you hate their decisions or not, we're the ones who make up the members of the houses that pass the bills and the decisions, WE have responsibility for choosing a president. So when shit happens like FEMA or whatever, a bad bill passes, that reflects back at us too.
~
Also...because people probably missed my first reply above, to reiterate, if we want to go anywhere with this instead of making it seem like our government is the enemy, do you think we're evolving as far as ethics in this "information age"? What information do not want to people to see, and what information do you think should be available to people? Literally - list some things out.
Think about the information you make available to the public and/or government (because if your government can see "bad" information, then it probably wasn't that hard to obtain in the first place). For example, bonehead friends that post pics of them smoking weed online. What information do you not want to share with the government? And if you aren't fine with sharing it...why? Are you doing something illegal?
In the governments point of view: Why are you concerned? Got something to hide? ...So you do? Well wow we're only more interested. :>
You're right on about everything you're saying, but there are some points I'd like to highlight. Soldiers/police are US citizens, so they are indeed
us. However, as we've seen countless times in the past, in other countries and even our own (not countless), people do have the capacity to kill their own kind if given a motive that pleases them.
On another note, let me highlight a point that I failed to note earlier:
I do believe that the NSA had appropriate and ethical motive, but approached it in an inappropriate, unlawful and unethical manner.
I do not have anything to hide, only to protect, and that is the core fundamentals that our country is based on. People have fought 200 years to protect the freedoms that are protected in the Constitution, and we're letting these freedoms (in this case, from unreasonable search and seizure) be slipped right out of underneath us. The Constitution has been protected for all of this time on the streets, in the courthouse, and in battle, but never digitally. Our society has grown vastly complacent and has yet to adapt to technology as fast as the lawyers and politicians...and they'll take advantage of that if they can.
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 10, 2013, 01:04:10 AM
The problem is they have a method for keeping scores on the American people.
If your score is high maybe because you visited a place that tells you how to prepare for a nature disaster, how to make homemade medicine or some other thing they deem dangerous. It puts you at higher risk to be discriminated against. Look at the recent IRS scandals that are going on now in usa. The government should not be discriminating on its own citizens.
I want to see a source before I believe about the score keeping. I'm pretty certain if that was true (and validated) the press would be all over that.
As for all of this arguing over the Peace Index, you're assuming that firearms are the only factor that plays into violence.
On the if given the motive thing...of course I know 1984, etc., but this is America...in the 21st century. Of all countries, our country would be the one of the least likely of all places to be oppressed by our own government. Everything against what we were founded on. I think most Americans have the same interest of national security...this is what they say it's for.
4th Amendment...I don't think this case. And I might be right...according to this:
"Does the State have the power to intercept telephone conversations and use information gathered that way, or are such actions a violation of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments?
The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 against the plaintiffs and in favor of the government, holding that wire-tapping was not an unreasonable search and seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment and was not compulsory self-incrimination within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment."
http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/privacy/bldec_OlmsteadUS.htm (http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/privacy/bldec_OlmsteadUS.htm)
(Why it's under atheism...IDFK.)
So as far as ethics, I think that's up to the Supreme Court judges...and I think this might go to Supreme: http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-turn-over-data-fbi-000951138.html (http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-turn-over-data-fbi-000951138.html)
From what I've studied from my law classes, cases follow precedent (cases), and a case like Google might allow/disallow the govt. from "snooping" in our information, though based on that case maybe it'll affirm or disaffirm, judges have changed. It was from 1928, though I'm sure you can find more recent, similar cases.
Two more things. 1. What's the point of switching over to different social networks, emails, phone services if the government's allowed to search any company? To keep evading them? But why? Seems like it would be a never-ending chase, and who's got the faster car? 2. When I first read the topic I honestly have always thought our government's ALWAYS been watching us. When I was maybe in the 2nd grade someone close told me that the government has secret places and computers that can spy on you anytime, anywhere, for anything. I believed it, remembering this Eyewitness book from my school library on spying tools...the government would be the first to get hands on them. Then when I was in high school ~4 years back I saw that Simpsons movie, where they show a scene of rows of government workers on computers watching us.
I'm still concerned of course, raises an eyebrow, but if it's for national security, I can understand. There's 300 million+ Americans and people are getting more and more into tech, like Owen said I don't think they'll be paying to snoop on my grandma watching her Asian dramas.
edit: I missed the part on where you said our society is evolving into technology and the law hasn't fully adapted to it...yes if I didn't mention it in my reply before I wanted to, I'll put this on my mind until then.
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT is a private corporation. WAL-MART and SEARS are public corporations. Do we have a say in SEARS company policy? NO. That's why you have no say in USG policies.
I care because I'm a prime suspect in the u.s.
Being an Arab American Muslim and all..
Quote from: Al on June 13, 2013, 06:56:38 AM
On the if given the motive thing...of course I know 1984, etc., but this is America...in the 21st century. Of all countries, our country would be the one of the least likely of all places to be oppressed by our own government. Everything against what we were founded on. I think most Americans have the same interest of national security...this is what they say it's for.
4th Amendment...I don't think this case. And I might be right...according to this:
"Does the State have the power to intercept telephone conversations and use information gathered that way, or are such actions a violation of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments?
The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 against the plaintiffs and in favor of the government, holding that wire-tapping was not an unreasonable search and seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment and was not compulsory self-incrimination within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment."
http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/privacy/bldec_OlmsteadUS.htm (http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/privacy/bldec_OlmsteadUS.htm)
(Why it's under atheism...IDFK.)
So as far as ethics, I think that's up to the Supreme Court judges...and I think this might go to Supreme: http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-turn-over-data-fbi-000951138.html (http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-turn-over-data-fbi-000951138.html)
From what I've studied from my law classes, cases follow precedent (cases), and a case like Google might allow/disallow the govt. from "snooping" in our information, though based on that case maybe it'll affirm or disaffirm, judges have changed. It was from 1928, though I'm sure you can find more recent, similar cases.
Two more things. 1. What's the point of switching over to different social networks, emails, phone services if the government's allowed to search any company? To keep evading them? But why? Seems like it would be a never-ending chase, and who's got the faster car? 2. When I first read the topic I honestly have always thought our government's ALWAYS been watching us. When I was maybe in the 2nd grade someone close told me that the government has secret places and computers that can spy on you anytime, anywhere, for anything. I believed it, remembering this Eyewitness book from my school library on spying tools...the government would be the first to get hands on them. Then when I was in high school ~4 years back I saw that Simpsons movie, where they show a scene of rows of government workers on computers watching us.
I'm still concerned of course, raises an eyebrow, but if it's for national security, I can understand. There's 300 million+ Americans and people are getting more and more into tech, like Owen said I don't think they'll be paying to snoop on my grandma watching her Asian dramas.
edit: I missed the part on where you said our society is evolving into technology and the law hasn't fully adapted to it...yes if I didn't mention it in my reply before I wanted to, I'll put this on my mind until then.
You are right with the wire-tapping, although I'm not sure if that goes with or without a search warrant. It's also worth noting that in the deal with Verizon, all sorts of identification data for both the caller and the receiver (now don't quote me on this, but I believe this also applies if the receiver didn't pick up) were picked up. Such data wasn't part of the equation in 1928.
Quote from: safe eat on June 13, 2013, 06:04:56 PM
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT is a private corporation. WAL-MART and SEARS are public corporations. Do we have a say in SEARS company policy? NO. That's why you have no say in USG policies.
I don't meant to be sassy, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic
Quote from: Asaad on June 13, 2013, 08:45:06 PM
I care because I'm a prime suspect in the u.s.
Being an Arab American Muslim and all..
I'm so terribly sorry :( //hugs
@Asaad Like I said before, it's 2013 America. I mean that in a good way. The government should know better not to vilify a race, like the Japanese in US during WW2.
edit: I'd have to do more research and think it through like writing a research essay to make a final opinion on this...
But just through gut feeling and the small stuff I've read here and there, I'm okay with them using this much power, searching into our shit...
Nowadays, like they've always said, everything posted on the internet stays somewhere. Nothing is truly private...so one way of looking at it is if it's a more efficient way of combing through suspicious profiles or records, that's fine.
At least they're public about this, not some "big brother" thing that we don't know about. They're telling us, "We're going to (or at least will try to), look at your stuff, so you should watch it."
BTW I just watched Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine in my Film 1A class, and it said a lot about how America's really been scared and paranoid of everything (scared of the English so they moved to the new world, scared of themselves so they went to civil war, scared of the Native Americans so they killed them all, scared of working so they stole Africans, etc. and the story's stayed the same). We've taken the biggest measures of all (like I said, the Executive Order on Japs), and this is just another one of them.
The problem is that the government uses every opportunity to take away rights we have.
They can do it because they say it is for our safety.
This is just a reference about state crimes. Some of it is pretty out of date but the idea is there.
Not all states are equal when it comes to crimes committed.
(http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/incrimus.gif)
(http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/images/figures/07regcrimeratefig.gif)
(http://www.ncpa.org/images/933.gif)
If you consider that most of our gun crimes are done by repeat offenders these number could be lower if we made it harder to get out of jails. Problem is that more of our jails are filled with drug users or fraud. We probably put more people in jail for things other countries would fine them for or is legal.
(http://gunlawforum.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/gun_death_states1.gif)
New york is so safe..
Quote from: Josheh on June 12, 2013, 03:09:10 AM
I love some of the ignorance in this thread, both american and non-american. So eager to give up your privacy and fight the muslims!
I swore oaths to defend the peoples rights. Not a bigwigs seat. I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. However with the current state of global affairs I would say some tapping is warranted on potential terrorist threats. That being said if they start arresting people solely on suspicion or because of a political agenda then we have a major problem.
Oh wait
Al also to add a bit of understanding argument to the point I was trying to make, I am not saying "Obama r Hitlar". I'm simply trying to say we are going down a slippery slope to possibly becoming a police state.
Why must you think our government is always conspiring against us?
@Rachel What does gun crime by state have to do with our privacy problem? I'm talking about whether or not it's ethical in our evolving technological society for certain information to be open to them.
Going back more on topic...I think the folks at Google are doing us some good by not releasing user info and going forward to appeal, so safe to say they already think this is unconstitutional. And I agree that anyone can't just snoop in anyone's stuff if they aren't comfortable with it, it's like natural law.
I've come up with a possible solution...I think that the govt. needs more due process to access profiles and records. Want information? Tell us why, and we'll be glad to help you out, because lives are at stake. Instead of them walking up to Google and adjusting their belts and saying, we're gonna need all user information. I think it seems a little exaggerating to build a big building and hoard 350M's people's info but again I don't think they'll be doing that.
Quote from: Al on June 15, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
Why must you think our government is always conspiring against us?
Im not even going to argue or explain anything else to you al, youve already drank the cool aid
Goodness! This is such a good discussion. Let's not start a flame war here, okay?
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 15, 2013, 11:47:31 AM
The problem is that the government uses every opportunity to take away rights we have.
They can do it because they say it is for our safety.
This is just a reference about state crimes. Some of it is pretty out of date but the idea is there.
Not all states are equal when it comes to crimes committed.
(http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/incrimus.gif)
(http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/images/figures/07regcrimeratefig.gif)
(http://www.ncpa.org/images/933.gif)
If you consider that most of our gun crimes are done by repeat offenders these number could be lower if we made it harder to get out of jails. Problem is that more of our jails are filled with drug users or fraud. We probably put more people in jail for things other countries would fine them for or is legal.
(http://gunlawforum.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/gun_death_states1.gif)
About taking away our rights in the name of safety, this was in the news the other day: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57589199-94/kill-switch-sought-as-answer-to-phone-theft-epidemic/ (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57589199-94/kill-switch-sought-as-answer-to-phone-theft-epidemic/)
You would have to be a complete dolt to think that theft is the only factor of the equation.
Quote from: Al on June 15, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
Why must you think our government is always conspiring against us?
@Rachel What does gun crime by state have to do with our privacy problem? I'm talking about whether or not it's ethical in our evolving technological society for certain information to be open to them.
Going back more on topic...I think the folks at Google are doing us some good by not releasing user info and going forward to appeal, so safe to say they already think this is unconstitutional. And I agree that anyone can't just snoop in anyone's stuff if they aren't comfortable with it, it's like natural law.
I've come up with a possible solution...I think that the govt. needs more due process to access profiles and records. Want information? Tell us why, and we'll be glad to help you out, because lives are at stake. Instead of them walking up to Google and adjusting their belts and saying, we're gonna need all user information. I think it seems a little exaggerating to build a big building and hoard 350M's people's info but again I don't think they'll be doing that.
I will proudly admit that overall, Google is a
good company when it comes to privacy. However, they did drop the ball in this situation. They are being very apologetic about it, but I'm afraid that it's a little more of an act than I'd like to believe. I completely agree with your last paragraph though. You have my vote.
I agree about that not being about theft alone.
Honestly people have been stealing for years.
The criminals will figure a way around this.
I think this is more of a way to quiet people to call out to others if they choose it would be better to block the calls.
They may not want pictures of certain types of things being shared either.
Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 16, 2013, 01:13:33 AM
I agree about that not being about theft alone.
Honestly people have been stealing for years.
The criminals will figure a way around this.
I think this is more of a way to quiet people to call out to others if they choose it would be better to block the calls.
They may not want pictures of certain types of things being shared either.
My libertarian views might be showing a little too clearly, but I think it's completely up to the people to protect themselves from phone theft. I don't expect the government to hold my hand for some < $500 object. In the scheme of things, that's an entirely miniscule amount. There's better ways to protect our stolen belongings anyway, like the Prey Project: http://preyproject.com/ (http://preyproject.com/)
[Note: this is a little side-tracked, but still related]
I consider myself more political than the average person, but I'm certainly no political genius. However, I believe there's something I've learned before many others do. That is that politics can help prevent problems, but is rarely the answer.
As long as there are people who are willing to act immorally, they will act immoral.
Taking away guns won't stop people from killing each other - only from killing each other with guns (though we know that could never be the case in the US anyway).
As soon as the government figures out one way to remove piracy, that method is already outdated.
People who will do what is wrong will have no problem breaking rules. Instead of focusing on banning and controlling everything, maybe we ought to just strive to be better people.
edit: BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN BE APATHETIC TOWARDS YOUR GOVERNMENT!
edit 2: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/305765-senators-skip-classified-briefing-on-nsa-snooping-to-catch-flights-home (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/305765-senators-skip-classified-briefing-on-nsa-snooping-to-catch-flights-home) It's crap like this, folks.
Quote from: Pacman Syu on June 16, 2013, 12:44:36 AM
Goodness! This is such a good discussion. Let's not start a flame war here, okay?
Not starting shit, just pointing out the obvious fact that he is living in la la land about this.
edit: 420 POST do u evn blaze it fgt
Quote from: This Babylon on June 16, 2013, 01:52:07 AM
Quote from: Pacman Syu on June 16, 2013, 12:44:36 AM
Goodness! This is such a good discussion. Let's not start a flame war here, okay?
Not starting shit, just pointing out the obvious fact that he is living in la la land about this.
edit: 420 POST do u evn blaze it fgt
Not sure why but that edit part made me lol.
Further discussion:
On if the government has a evil hidden agenda, there's hints here and there that makes it hard for me to believe they would conspire against the average citizen. There's always been some kind of act to lessen government secrecy, like the Freedom of Information Act (and just surfing through Wikipedia, others as well).
Remember Zero Dark Thirty? I know it's a movie, but take in point that these people work in offices, and regular people work there, all the "government" officials are all regular citizens just like I said, and I'm sure somebody, somewhere, somehow (bad) secrets would get leaked. Someone would say something. Somebody would know. Can you imagine what would happen if the American public found out? That right there just makes me think how absurd it is to say our president is a Hitler, the government is taking powers away from us average citizens.
Just in one hour ago: "NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants
National Security Agency discloses in secret Capitol Hill briefing that thousands of analysts can listen to domestic phone calls. That authorization appears to extend to e-mail and text messages too."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-admits-listening-to-u.s-phone-calls-without-warrants/ (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-admits-listening-to-u.s-phone-calls-without-warrants/)
It's hard to keep things secret.
edit: btw these are the videos i wanted you guys to watch:
A Brief History of the USA - Bowling for Columbine - Michael Moore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGYFRzf2Xww#ws)
What a wonderfull world (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF1Da6MCUC4#ws)
To add to the point that like the movie portrays, the US has always been "scared."
Al the latter video is the exact reason behind my logic, we do so much bad shit its not even funny, its like noone gives a fuck anymore and its all about personal gain/ the gains of the country rather than gains to the world society as a whole. If they did that much shit, what makes you think they wont do it over here for their own political power / dominance to further support their own greed?
Quote from: This Babylon on June 16, 2013, 02:29:12 AM
Al the latter video is the exact reason behind my logic, we do so much bad shit its not even funny, its like noone gives a fuck anymore and its all about personal gain/ the gains of the country rather than gains to the world society as a whole. If they did that much shit, what makes you think they wont do it over here for their own political power / dominance to further support their own greed?
So why are you against what I'm saying? Did you read what I wrote?
I said the government snooping in our shit is not cool, and used Google as an example and said at least they're doing their part.
This is a wonderful topic, peoples opinions are being expressed and no one is specifically attacking each other. Just wanted to give you all a high-five for that.
:woeh: :woeh:
I would like to express a short opinion that I'm very angry that the american government thinks it is okay to spy, yes spy, on me and my doings.
I'm just gonna say I live in America and first of all not all those companies share data with the government. example 1: apple is fighting the united states grand jury right now because they don't want to unlock someone's phone so the government can check it. this statement along almost brings down this entire thing. 1 false statement in this topic and it could all be false. in all honesty any government is gonna do what they want, that's what power is. and example 2: with some parts of this topic already proven "wrong" how much is actually right? you will never know governments have a way of keeping their business un detected all this is, is a conspiracy theory nothing more actually could be even less than that. and as far as "spying" goes your a fool to think some governments don't look into peoples life's or at least certain people's life's which is spying none the less. so don't say America is wrong for doing it cause yes they are but any government with the slightest bit of power is going to spy that's just how the world is gonna be with 7billiion plus people.
This was discussed in 2013, please create a new topic if you wish to discuss this again. Many of these posters will not read your comments.
I've locked it to save confusion :)