So as some of you may know I've been playing this game called NCAA (national collegiate athletic association) Football 13. Football as in American football or gridiron for some of you. On it there's this game mode where you can take an existing team such as Stanford or USC or whatever school and bring them to a championship by recruiting. During the recruiting process, you have a database of players to call and you get a limited amount of time to "call" prospects. You choose various topics to try to garner their interest, make promises such as giving them solid playing time, winning the national championship, the conference championship, many other things. You can "choose a pitch," which is basically trying to find what they are interested in in a football program and school, which includes tradition, coach prestige, coach stability (how long his contract is for and is his position at the school stable), academic prestige, championship contender, television exposure, campus lifestyle, playing style, proximity to home.
Think how we could use a rating system for WG or the RuneScape clan world.
proximity = timezone
playing style = what does the clan focus on?
coach stability = is the leader stable and there to stay?
championship contender = Jagex Cup contender
tradition = how long has the clan been around, what have they contributed to the clan world, their history
television exposure = public relations, what reputation they have in the clan world
coach prestige = what can the leader(s) bring or benefit/teach you?
playing time = what can you bring to the clan?
Post your thoughts and opinions. Could we use a ranking system like this? Other categories people look for in a clan?
Um yeah, I guess.
Or you could just advertise the clan with all it's best attributes without having to organise those attributes into categories for the sake of categories.
Just some extra food for thought, to know where we are and what we are good at, we need to know the categories first.
http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm (http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm)
Quote from: Kez on October 12, 2012, 07:50:03 PM
http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm (http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm)
So out of date.
Quote from: Owen on October 12, 2012, 08:36:45 PM
Quote from: Kez on October 12, 2012, 07:50:03 PM
http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm (http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm)
So out of date.
Compare it to us today:
#1: YES, we're actually in the top 10 oldest clans
#2: NO, we haven't had a proper P2P PK in ages
#3: NO, even though I prove how fun it is countless times, but no-one listens
#4: YES we have official wars once a month
#5: NO we don't have PKRIs weekly because we'd get trashed by every clan out there
#6: YES because Nightshade is awesome
#7: YES because we're at GWD more often than the actual NPCs
#8: SORT-OF, for example we do host the Aussie raid but no one shows up
#9: YES all our non-PvP is optional
#10: NO we don't have over 150 members, we have about 15
#11: NO we don't focus on rank-climbing, we focus on mountain-climbing instead
#12: YES we have a website even if it hasn't been updated in over a year
Stop being such a fanboi :P I do what I can with the time I nhave, as everyone should...
Anywho; we can at least cross 3 no's off that list with some work...
tl:dr because of the amount of references to American Football (more commonly known as HandEgg).
Looks like an overly complicated and pointless idea. :3
K...let me reiterate. I don't think you guys are getting the point lol. I didn't bring this up to suggest this for recruiting. Or to show off how well we are at whatever category. This is just a thought of how clans can be measured on a rating of F to A+ or 1-10.
Why is this important? Because ever since the organized RAW (for those of you that don't know, Rank According to Warring on RSC) rankings fell off the map, the clan world has diminished. I'm not saying the two correlate, but has anyone thought about this? What if people don't want to join warring clans because...
1. you can't rank up anymore
2. the "RAW rankings" is now an opinion-based sticky topic and not organized anymore
3. top clans like VR and EoS (sadly, I'm probably missing some) DDoS attacks to win wars, but still get ranked high
This is bringing in other subjects, but why should the clan world allow cheaters to be the best*? The number of clans that follow no-NH principles have winded down to shit, and we're one of the last clans to follow a code. I'm afraid that this trend will continue and clans will continue to flame, flame-bait, argue, DDoS, hack, troll, and more. Maybe the wilderness isn't the only reason why the PVP clan world is diminishing?
I wasn't exactly around clanning in the RSC world (the "outside" or "off-site" clan world as I call it) when these principles were a lot more common, but judging from the old-school war videos you can tell it was a lot more cleaner and enjoyable. Compare that clan world to the clan world today. Does VR really deserve that plaque in Edgeville bank for the combat cup? What about the clan (don't quite remember) that attacked first even though they got south in the J-cup? These are just a few examples of where honor and code can be applied. I'm sure there's more.
The RAW rank was something that I actually factored into my decision to join. WG -- not too high because I didn't want to be an unknown speck in a 100+ man powerhouse clan. Back when it was still intact, I joined right after WG beat the Crimson Raiders? for their RAW rank. It was a big deal. It motivated me to contribute by working on melee, prayer, ranged, mage, and way more. It had to be done because I wanted to help in war. I wanted to help the clan rise because the RAW rankings was official and widely accepted in the clan world. People had faith in those rankings and I felt like it reflected our clan status as well. What happened to that? Why can't we have ranks again?
I'm proposing that we should create a new, comprehensive ranking methodology that could erase any doubts or bias or whatever it may be that crushed the RAW rankings in the first place. Create a mathematical equation and transcribe it into a computer program that you could punch numbers into to automate it. When you bring in statistics and mathematics into real life, yes it can be inaccurate. If you mess up one part of an equation, you won't solve it. But if we tweak the variables, the categories, eliminate bias, just everything that wasn't in the rankings before, we could get a "more-perfect" rating and rank of a clan.
The only rankings I know of that used: Demoniknights (based on site clicks), RAW (only based on warring), Jagex Cup (based on the category you compete for), or the RuneScape Clan Rankings (just facepalm..lol). From my understanding many Scapers generally choose clans by a few types. One is for competition (warring), second one is community (a friend's clan or just a place to socialize), third maybe to benefit (a skilling clan or questing clan). Obviously this is a ranking system, so we would fall under the competition category. Today's Scapers have almost nothing.
With that being said...this is my closing statement. All we have to do is get it out there. Get it accepted, make it known. The objective is to make all Scapers strive to clan again. The clan world didn't die, RuneScape didn't die, Jagex didn't kill the game. Maybe it's just that Scapers aren't motivated anymore to clan again. With no set system of ranking, clans slinging shit at each other...would you expect them to?
Tried to get my thoughts down as quick as possible and it's very late...I hope you guys get the idea.
1. you can't rank up anymore - ranking means nothing anyway when there is barely a top 3
2. the "RAW rankings" is now an opinion-based sticky topic and not organized anymore - That's because RAW was a failure.
3. top clans like VR and EoS (sadly, I'm probably missing some) DDoS attacks to win wars, but still get ranked high - We know we killed the clan world. Most clans DDoS now.
Quote from: Panda|Vulcan on October 13, 2012, 12:54:58 PM
1. you can't rank up anymore - ranking means nothing anyway when there is barely a top 3
2. the "RAW rankings" is now an opinion-based sticky topic and not organized anymore - That's because RAW was a failure.
3. top clans like VR and EoS (sadly, I'm probably missing some) DDoS attacks to win wars, but still get ranked high - We know we killed the clan world. Most clans DDoS now.
Got something to say?
Quote from: Al on October 13, 2012, 08:44:56 PM
Quote from: Panda|Vulcan on October 13, 2012, 12:54:58 PM
1. you can't rank up anymore - ranking means nothing anyway when there is barely a top 3
2. the "RAW rankings" is now an opinion-based sticky topic and not organized anymore - That's because RAW was a failure.
3. top clans like VR and EoS (sadly, I'm probably missing some) DDoS attacks to win wars, but still get ranked high - We know we killed the clan world. Most clans DDoS now.
Got something to say?
I think he just said it.
Quote from: Kez on October 12, 2012, 11:20:52 PM
Quote from: Owen on October 12, 2012, 08:36:45 PM
Quote from: Kez on October 12, 2012, 07:50:03 PM
http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm (http://wildernessguardians.com/table.htm)
So out of date.
Compare it to us today:
#1: YES, we're actually in the top 10 oldest clans
#2: NO, we haven't had a proper P2P PK in ages
#3: NO, even though I prove how fun it is countless times, but no-one listens
#4: YES we have official wars once a month
#5: NO we don't have PKRIs weekly because we'd get trashed by every clan out there
#6: YES because Nightshade is awesome
#7: YES because we're at GWD more often than the actual NPCs
#8: SORT-OF, for example we do host the Aussie raid but no one shows up
#9: YES all our non-PvP is optional
#10: NO we don't have over 150 members, we have about 15
#11: NO we don't focus on rank-climbing, we focus on mountain-climbing instead
#12: YES we have a website even if it hasn't been updated in over a year
Actually, we (WG+DG) seem to have 30 members (2 Advisers, 2 Elite Guardians, 2 Event Masters, 10 Guardians, 3 High Guardians, 2 High Soldiers, 2 Leaders, 1 Raidmaster, 6 Soldiers), not to mention 16 initiates. Not horrible!
Quote from: Mojohaza1 on October 13, 2012, 08:51:06 PM
Quote from: Al on October 13, 2012, 08:44:56 PM
Quote from: Panda|Vulcan on October 13, 2012, 12:54:58 PM
1. you can't rank up anymore - ranking means nothing anyway when there is barely a top 3
2. the "RAW rankings" is now an opinion-based sticky topic and not organized anymore - That's because RAW was a failure.
3. top clans like VR and EoS (sadly, I'm probably missing some) DDoS attacks to win wars, but still get ranked high - We know we killed the clan world. Most clans DDoS now.
Got something to say?
I think he just said it.
Misread, ##
Moving on, what do you guys think appropriate and measureable variables for the equation?
playing style = what does the clan focus on?
coach stability = is the leader stable and there to stay?
championship contender = Jagex Cup contender
television exposure = public relations, what reputation they have in the clan world
coach prestige = what can the leader(s) bring or benefit/teach you?
These are unquantifiable categories, so you can't exactly use them in an equation...
That's going to be a challenge. So the question is, what measureable factors can you use to rate a clan? Amount of time spent as a leader, Jagex cup ranking. Ratio of members to median combat level? Median because it doesn't factor in the outliers (extreme highs and lows)? Clan stability...average length of time of members that full members have stayed in the clan. Let me add to that. Clans in the rankings would then have to submit their own information every time period the rankings are refreshed and re-ordered. K/D ratio, Average number of attendance. Just thought if another I think but I forgot, will get back to this later.
Cheating and DDoS would null the clan the clan from the rankings.
Any of the unquantifiable categories can be written down by the respective clan in a drop-down under the rating or something.
DO IT ALREADY
Quote from: Kez on October 14, 2012, 05:46:44 AM
DO IT ALREADY
I'd have to go to the people to actually draft it. First a statistician...I have my old AP Stats teacher from HS in mind. And my computer science major friends maybe. Well I'm excited, keep the discussion going and what other quantifiable variables can you factor in? Good chance to make this into something big...contribute!
Quote from: Mojohaza1 on October 13, 2012, 01:53:22 AM
tl:dr because of the amount of references to American Football (more commonly known as HandEgg).
Looks like an overly complicated and pointless idea. :3
dork
:neg:
Quote from: Keith on October 15, 2012, 01:46:09 AM
Quote from: Mojohaza1 on October 13, 2012, 01:53:22 AM
tl:dr because of the amount of references to American Football (more commonly known as HandEgg).
Looks like an overly complicated and pointless idea. :3
dork
:neg:
SMD pls keith :)
Quote from: Al on October 14, 2012, 04:33:59 AM
That's going to be a challenge. So the question is, what measureable factors can you use to rate a clan? Amount of time spent as a leader, Jagex cup ranking. Ratio of members to median combat level? Median because it doesn't factor in the outliers (extreme highs and lows)? Clan stability...average length of time of members that full members have stayed in the clan. Let me add to that. Clans in the rankings would then have to submit their own information every time period the rankings are refreshed and re-ordered. K/D ratio, Average number of attendance. Just thought if another I think but I forgot, will get back to this later.
Cheating and DDoS would null the clan the clan from the rankings.
Any of the unquantifiable categories can be written down by the respective clan in a drop-down under the rating or something.
Please READ the below.
Quote from: Owen on October 14, 2012, 03:31:40 AM
playing style = what does the clan focus on?
coach stability = is the leader stable and there to stay?
championship contender = Jagex Cup contender
television exposure = public relations, what reputation they have in the clan world
coach prestige = what can the leader(s) bring or benefit/teach you?
These are unquantifiable categories, so you can't exactly use them in an equation...
Measurable qualities, if they beat x they are ranked higher than x
Well that was how RAW ran and eventually it didn't work anymore and fell apart. I want to see if making a system that rates a clan by many factors, not just only who beats who. Anybody can rally up people and try to knock a clan off a rank right?
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:26:12 AM
Well that was how RAW ran and eventually it didn't work anymore and fell apart. I want to see if making a system that rates a clan by many factors, not just only who beats who. Anybody clan rally up people and try to knock a clan off a rank right?
That's recruiting and warring isnt it?..
There isnt much else to wilderness clans.
Quote from: Raging Mage2 on October 15, 2012, 07:36:46 AM
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:26:12 AM
Well that was how RAW ran and eventually it didn't work anymore and fell apart. I want to see if making a system that rates a clan by many factors, not just only who beats who. Anybody clan rally up people and try to knock a clan off a rank right?
That's recruiting and warring isnt it?..
There isnt much else to wilderness clans.
What would it mean if 100 randomers gathered together and knocked off the #1 rank? That doesn't measure how good the clan is at all?
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Raging Mage2 on October 15, 2012, 07:36:46 AM
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:26:12 AM
Well that was how RAW ran and eventually it didn't work anymore and fell apart. I want to see if making a system that rates a clan by many factors, not just only who beats who. Anybody clan rally up people and try to knock a clan off a rank right?
That's recruiting and warring isnt it?..
There isnt much else to wilderness clans.
What would it mean if 100 randomers gathered together and knocked off the #1 rank? That doesn't measure how good the clan is at all?
If they're in your clan it does.
Quote from: Raging Mage2 on October 15, 2012, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Raging Mage2 on October 15, 2012, 07:36:46 AM
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:26:12 AM
Well that was how RAW ran and eventually it didn't work anymore and fell apart. I want to see if making a system that rates a clan by many factors, not just only who beats who. Anybody clan rally up people and try to knock a clan off a rank right?
That's recruiting and warring isnt it?..
There isnt much else to wilderness clans.
What would it mean if 100 randomers gathered together and knocked off the #1 rank? That doesn't measure how good the clan is at all?
If they're in your clan it does.
If it was a temporary rally then I wouldn't add it to the toplist on the rating system. The "clan" wouldn't be viable to join at all. I mentioned that the equation could factor in things like how long the leader or members have stayed in the clan. That alone would wipe out it. Beating a clan wouldn't mean you're automatically ranked above it. It would make the clan you beat lose credibility and drop in rating, but certainly not the old of of RAW rankings. If clans did start beating them, then eventually their rank would drop lower and lower.
Quote from: Raging Mage2 on October 15, 2012, 10:51:44 AM
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Raging Mage2 on October 15, 2012, 07:36:46 AM
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:26:12 AM
Well that was how RAW ran and eventually it didn't work anymore and fell apart. I want to see if making a system that rates a clan by many factors, not just only who beats who. Anybody clan rally up people and try to knock a clan off a rank right?
That's recruiting and warring isnt it?..
There isnt much else to wilderness clans.
What would it mean if 100 randomers gathered together and knocked off the #1 rank? That doesn't measure how good the clan is at all?
If they're in your clan it does.
If it was a temporary rally then I wouldn't add it to the toplist on the rating system. The "clan" wouldn't be viable to join at all. I mentioned that the equation could factor in things like how long the leader or members have stayed in the clan. That alone would wipe out it. Beating a clan wouldn't mean you're automatically ranked above it. It would make the clan you beat lose credibility and drop in rating, but certainly not the old of of RAW rankings. If clans did start beating them, then over their rank would drop lower and lower.
I've been thinking about a refresh in rankings after a time period, and then an all-time ranking list, kind of like the pound-for-pound list used in boxing. After each period new clans would be able to sign-up for a shot at the top. Clans that were already on the list or have history get priority, and then after the off-season or sign-up period ends clans would have to manually enter on the list by taking whatever rank is comes next at the bottom.
Oh, you didn't want opinions. Sorry
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Raging Mage2 on October 15, 2012, 07:36:46 AM
Quote from: Al on October 15, 2012, 07:26:12 AM
Well that was how RAW ran and eventually it didn't work anymore and fell apart. I want to see if making a system that rates a clan by many factors, not just only who beats who. Anybody clan rally up people and try to knock a clan off a rank right?
That's recruiting and warring isnt it?..
There isnt much else to wilderness clans.
What would it mean if 100 randomers gathered together and knocked off the #1 rank? That doesn't measure how good the clan is at all?
That's why fights for RAW rank usually had rules, meaning it was a fair fight, and when would you ever have 100 randomers fighting the top clan?
Pretty sure WG mass rallied vs Bk back in the day #
Well according to ex Bk, when apps were meant to close WG ml grew by like 80 #
OT:
Most clans ddos and cheat now. Sometimes in defence though. In nbk we ddos Reiss.
Quote from: Panda|Vulcan on October 15, 2012, 03:42:37 PM
Pretty sure WG mass rallied vs Bk back in the day #
Well according to ex Bk, when apps were meant to close WG ml grew by like 80 #
OT:
Most clans ddos and cheat now. Sometimes in defence though. In nbk we ddos Reiss.
Whether in attack or defence Ddos'ing is illegal and anyone who stays in clans that do these things are morons, I've been looking in on the current crash war between my old clan Solace + numerous others, Think its safe to say the only clan left in the clan world i would feel comfortable knowing they wouldn't crash/ddos/leak irl info is WG and am happy that atleast 1 clan left in the clan world still upholds some kind of honour.
Quantifiable:
1. Membercount
2. War record while in this ladder or "system"
3. Average or median combat level
4. Average pull
5. K/D ratio
Quote from: Onathe on October 17, 2012, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: Panda|Vulcan on October 15, 2012, 03:42:37 PM
Pretty sure WG mass rallied vs Bk back in the day #
Well according to ex Bk, when apps were meant to close WG ml grew by like 80 #
OT:
Most clans ddos and cheat now. Sometimes in defence though. In nbk we ddos Reiss.
Whether in attack or defence Ddos'ing is illegal and anyone who stays in clans that do these things are morons, I've been looking in on the current crash war between my old clan Solace + numerous others, Think its safe to say the only clan left in the clan world i would feel comfortable knowing they wouldn't crash/ddos/leak irl info is WG and am happy that atleast 1 clan left in the clan world still upholds some kind of honour.
Less than 2 days ago, Kez asked if we could join the crash war...