Archives > Real Life Discussion
Concerning recent discoveries about the US government
Al:
"Here's The $2 Billion Facility Where The NSA Will Store And Analyze Your Communications"
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6#ixzz2Vt5GbZ16
This Babylon:
--- Quote from: Al on June 11, 2013, 07:42:29 am ---"Here's The $2 Billion Facility Where The NSA Will Store And Analyze Your Communications"
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/pictures-of-the-nsas-utah-data-center-2013-6#ixzz2Vt5GbZ16
--- End quote ---
inb4 anons hack it and delete everything
Josheh:
I love some of the ignorance in this thread, both american and non-american. So eager to give up your privacy and fight the muslims!
Pacman Syu:
ITT: People who need to read 1984
--- Quote from: milfhunt3r on June 09, 2013, 10:37:26 pm ---Lol, i dont think weve had privacy since the early 2000s, to be honest. I know a lot of people that are aware of shit like that... But people dont really take action out here they just kind of watch it.... I mean come on, this guy gets a ridiculous amount of signatures to nullify the first ammendment , even though hes just trolling them
Were pretty much boned. Google Obama's FEMA camps.
--- End quote ---
That was the most cringe-worthy thing I've watched in a long time. I couldn't watch past a minute and a half. Even that video Lordy posted was more tolerable than that.
--- Quote from: Al on June 10, 2013, 12:50:34 am ---What I'm about to write below concerns mostly my fellow Americans, so just a heads up if you're not from the US or anything you might not be interested. If not, you can scroll to the last few paragraphs, past the "~" ;).
--- Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 09, 2013, 03:03:50 pm ---Honestly anyone that trusts the government should look into the free housing offered by FEMA.
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What does trusting our government have anything with FEMA?
@Babylon That was a rhetorical question. The president, police, military, your fireman, mailman are also citizens of the US like we are, as you know. I was responding to your pic and quotes. Now...not a rhetorical question - if the military have firearms, that means the citizens do too? As in...you, as a member of our military, would you suppress the people in the event of a Nazi Germany (hypothetically)?
Comparing our president to Hitler, posting quotes from other political leaders in history...it's apples and oranges. Hitler wasn't even black.
The quotes. It's talking history...and I'm sorry to say but saying our president is a Hitler is a pretty uneducated remark. And I don't mean to say YOU'RE uneducated, I mean that if you said that keeping in mind of how our government works, something like a Nazi Germany would be virtually impossible to take off. Our govt. is structured in a way that nobody in the govt. branches are ever all-too-powerful (checks and balances, from the constitution). The legislators, senators, and president are joes like us, make a salary just like us, put on underwear in the morning just like us.
While we poke fun at our political leaders and Congress (10% approval rating of it as in fact I just found out), we're (WE the people) are responsible for it. That's OUR Congress not the "government's". My point is don't treat the government like they're a separate entity, that's the beauty of our government...whether you hate their decisions or not, we're the ones who make up the members of the houses that pass the bills and the decisions, WE have responsibility for choosing a president. So when shit happens like FEMA or whatever, a bad bill passes, that reflects back at us too.
~
Also...because people probably missed my first reply above, to reiterate, if we want to go anywhere with this instead of making it seem like our government is the enemy, do you think we're evolving as far as ethics in this "information age"? What information do not want to people to see, and what information do you think should be available to people? Literally - list some things out.
Think about the information you make available to the public and/or government (because if your government can see "bad" information, then it probably wasn't that hard to obtain in the first place). For example, bonehead friends that post pics of them smoking weed online. What information do you not want to share with the government? And if you aren't fine with sharing it...why? Are you doing something illegal?
In the governments point of view: Why are you concerned? Got something to hide? ...So you do? Well wow we're only more interested. :>
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You're right on about everything you're saying, but there are some points I'd like to highlight. Soldiers/police are US citizens, so they are indeed us. However, as we've seen countless times in the past, in other countries and even our own (not countless), people do have the capacity to kill their own kind if given a motive that pleases them.
On another note, let me highlight a point that I failed to note earlier: I do believe that the NSA had appropriate and ethical motive, but approached it in an inappropriate, unlawful and unethical manner.
I do not have anything to hide, only to protect, and that is the core fundamentals that our country is based on. People have fought 200 years to protect the freedoms that are protected in the Constitution, and we're letting these freedoms (in this case, from unreasonable search and seizure) be slipped right out of underneath us. The Constitution has been protected for all of this time on the streets, in the courthouse, and in battle, but never digitally. Our society has grown vastly complacent and has yet to adapt to technology as fast as the lawyers and politicians...and they'll take advantage of that if they can.
--- Quote from: Rachellove9 on June 10, 2013, 01:04:10 am ---The problem is they have a method for keeping scores on the American people.
If your score is high maybe because you visited a place that tells you how to prepare for a nature disaster, how to make homemade medicine or some other thing they deem dangerous. It puts you at higher risk to be discriminated against. Look at the recent IRS scandals that are going on now in usa. The government should not be discriminating on its own citizens.
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I want to see a source before I believe about the score keeping. I'm pretty certain if that was true (and validated) the press would be all over that.
As for all of this arguing over the Peace Index, you're assuming that firearms are the only factor that plays into violence.
Al:
On the if given the motive thing...of course I know 1984, etc., but this is America...in the 21st century. Of all countries, our country would be the one of the least likely of all places to be oppressed by our own government. Everything against what we were founded on. I think most Americans have the same interest of national security...this is what they say it's for.
4th Amendment...I don't think this case. And I might be right...according to this:
"Does the State have the power to intercept telephone conversations and use information gathered that way, or are such actions a violation of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments?
The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 against the plaintiffs and in favor of the government, holding that wire-tapping was not an unreasonable search and seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment and was not compulsory self-incrimination within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment."
http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/privacy/bldec_OlmsteadUS.htm
(Why it's under atheism...IDFK.)
So as far as ethics, I think that's up to the Supreme Court judges...and I think this might go to Supreme: http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-turn-over-data-fbi-000951138.html
From what I've studied from my law classes, cases follow precedent (cases), and a case like Google might allow/disallow the govt. from "snooping" in our information, though based on that case maybe it'll affirm or disaffirm, judges have changed. It was from 1928, though I'm sure you can find more recent, similar cases.
Two more things. 1. What's the point of switching over to different social networks, emails, phone services if the government's allowed to search any company? To keep evading them? But why? Seems like it would be a never-ending chase, and who's got the faster car? 2. When I first read the topic I honestly have always thought our government's ALWAYS been watching us. When I was maybe in the 2nd grade someone close told me that the government has secret places and computers that can spy on you anytime, anywhere, for anything. I believed it, remembering this Eyewitness book from my school library on spying tools...the government would be the first to get hands on them. Then when I was in high school ~4 years back I saw that Simpsons movie, where they show a scene of rows of government workers on computers watching us.
I'm still concerned of course, raises an eyebrow, but if it's for national security, I can understand. There's 300 million+ Americans and people are getting more and more into tech, like Owen said I don't think they'll be paying to snoop on my grandma watching her Asian dramas.
edit: I missed the part on where you said our society is evolving into technology and the law hasn't fully adapted to it...yes if I didn't mention it in my reply before I wanted to, I'll put this on my mind until then.