Archives > Real Life Discussion
Concerning recent discoveries about the US government
safe eat:
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT is a private corporation. WAL-MART and SEARS are public corporations. Do we have a say in SEARS company policy? NO. That's why you have no say in USG policies.
Asaad:
I care because I'm a prime suspect in the u.s.
Being an Arab American Muslim and all..
Pacman Syu:
--- Quote from: Al on June 13, 2013, 06:56:38 am ---On the if given the motive thing...of course I know 1984, etc., but this is America...in the 21st century. Of all countries, our country would be the one of the least likely of all places to be oppressed by our own government. Everything against what we were founded on. I think most Americans have the same interest of national security...this is what they say it's for.
4th Amendment...I don't think this case. And I might be right...according to this:
"Does the State have the power to intercept telephone conversations and use information gathered that way, or are such actions a violation of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments?
The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 against the plaintiffs and in favor of the government, holding that wire-tapping was not an unreasonable search and seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment and was not compulsory self-incrimination within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment."
http://atheism.about.com/library/decisions/privacy/bldec_OlmsteadUS.htm
(Why it's under atheism...IDFK.)
So as far as ethics, I think that's up to the Supreme Court judges...and I think this might go to Supreme: http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-turn-over-data-fbi-000951138.html
From what I've studied from my law classes, cases follow precedent (cases), and a case like Google might allow/disallow the govt. from "snooping" in our information, though based on that case maybe it'll affirm or disaffirm, judges have changed. It was from 1928, though I'm sure you can find more recent, similar cases.
Two more things. 1. What's the point of switching over to different social networks, emails, phone services if the government's allowed to search any company? To keep evading them? But why? Seems like it would be a never-ending chase, and who's got the faster car? 2. When I first read the topic I honestly have always thought our government's ALWAYS been watching us. When I was maybe in the 2nd grade someone close told me that the government has secret places and computers that can spy on you anytime, anywhere, for anything. I believed it, remembering this Eyewitness book from my school library on spying tools...the government would be the first to get hands on them. Then when I was in high school ~4 years back I saw that Simpsons movie, where they show a scene of rows of government workers on computers watching us.
I'm still concerned of course, raises an eyebrow, but if it's for national security, I can understand. There's 300 million+ Americans and people are getting more and more into tech, like Owen said I don't think they'll be paying to snoop on my grandma watching her Asian dramas.
edit: I missed the part on where you said our society is evolving into technology and the law hasn't fully adapted to it...yes if I didn't mention it in my reply before I wanted to, I'll put this on my mind until then.
--- End quote ---
You are right with the wire-tapping, although I'm not sure if that goes with or without a search warrant. It's also worth noting that in the deal with Verizon, all sorts of identification data for both the caller and the receiver (now don't quote me on this, but I believe this also applies if the receiver didn't pick up) were picked up. Such data wasn't part of the equation in 1928.
--- Quote from: safe eat on June 13, 2013, 06:04:56 pm ---UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT is a private corporation. WAL-MART and SEARS are public corporations. Do we have a say in SEARS company policy? NO. That's why you have no say in USG policies.
--- End quote ---
I don't meant to be sassy, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic
--- Quote from: Asaad on June 13, 2013, 08:45:06 pm ---I care because I'm a prime suspect in the u.s.
Being an Arab American Muslim and all..
--- End quote ---
I'm so terribly sorry :( //hugs
Al:
@Asaad Like I said before, it's 2013 America. I mean that in a good way. The government should know better not to vilify a race, like the Japanese in US during WW2.
edit: I'd have to do more research and think it through like writing a research essay to make a final opinion on this...
But just through gut feeling and the small stuff I've read here and there, I'm okay with them using this much power, searching into our shit...
Nowadays, like they've always said, everything posted on the internet stays somewhere. Nothing is truly private...so one way of looking at it is if it's a more efficient way of combing through suspicious profiles or records, that's fine.
At least they're public about this, not some "big brother" thing that we don't know about. They're telling us, "We're going to (or at least will try to), look at your stuff, so you should watch it."
BTW I just watched Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine in my Film 1A class, and it said a lot about how America's really been scared and paranoid of everything (scared of the English so they moved to the new world, scared of themselves so they went to civil war, scared of the Native Americans so they killed them all, scared of working so they stole Africans, etc. and the story's stayed the same). We've taken the biggest measures of all (like I said, the Executive Order on Japs), and this is just another one of them.
Rachellove9:
The problem is that the government uses every opportunity to take away rights we have.
They can do it because they say it is for our safety.
This is just a reference about state crimes. Some of it is pretty out of date but the idea is there.
Not all states are equal when it comes to crimes committed.
If you consider that most of our gun crimes are done by repeat offenders these number could be lower if we made it harder to get out of jails. Problem is that more of our jails are filled with drug users or fraud. We probably put more people in jail for things other countries would fine them for or is legal.